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If anyone's curious - https://planetscale.com/docs/postgres/search/get-started#local-development-and-ci https://planetscale.com/docs/postgres/search/get-started

If anyone's curious - https://planetscale.com/docs/postgres/search/get-started#local-development-and-ci https://planetscale.com/docs/postgres/search/get-started#loc...: They're not providing a local extension with the same performance at the time - it's only offered on their cloud services. The local version https://github.com/planetscale/lead https://github.com/planetscale/lead is mainly just for testing the syntax, it doesn't have the same perf characteristics.

noir_lord 15d ago
Becoming more the norm for them, Neki is the same. Immediately rules out ever using them (though I don't currently have any problems that would benefit from that level of scale currently, have in the past though). Postgres's license allows this but for me (personally) it leaves a bad taste. Also it's not really "full-text search for Postgres" it's "full-text search for our hosted version of Postgres" so the title is a little misleading.
- samlambert 15d ago
  why?
- dbbk 15d ago
  Why would you need super fast search for local testing?
  - Onavo 15d ago
    To avoid vendor lock-in.
    - dbbk 15d ago
      It's Postgres search any coding agent can switch you to something else in 5 minutes
- zombodb 15d ago
  Why don’t you like Postgres’ license? It’s as permissive as a license gets.
  - noir_lord 14d ago
    Building non-open extensions on top of it, it's not the license I don't like, the bad taste is that they use something open extend it and keep part of it closed. The license allows it but on the flip side it's vendor lock-in predicated on using something open as the base. Fully proprietary no issue with that, full open, no issue with that, building proprietary on top of open is where the bad taste comes in. For completeness, it's not them specifically either, the other cloud companies do similar things and I suspect in part the reason they don't open these extensions up is because the others will but then they are doing the same thing themselves.
    - zombodb 14d ago
      When one develops using open-source software they have an obligation to follow the licenses. They also have a moral obligation to be respectful of the work upon which they’re building. And they have a social obligation to help improve that software where they can. Those that develop on top of open-source have no obligation to give you their work for free. You’d be surprised as to the amount of open-source contributions TIN drove towards Postgres, LLVM, and pgrx. And you’d be speechless at the amount of upstream work across all sorts of open-source PlanetScale does. Postgres 18.6, for example, is better for you today, in part, because of TIN. You’re welcome.
      - noir_lord 14d ago
        > You’re welcome. I didn't say thank you and don't presume I would, Planetscale acting in their own self interest by improving postgres upstream isn't deserving of thanks, any more than Intel upstreaming a bunch of Linux kernel work is or myriad other examples. Corporations acting in their self interest isn't worth giving thanks for, neither is the work of the people paid to do work on their behalf. I don't expect my employer to thank me, I expect them to pay me, I don't expect users of software I was paid to write to thank me because I did it for the money not out of altruism towards those users.
- Cyph0n 14d ago
  > Becoming more the norm for them, Neki is the same. Uh, isn’t this becoming the norm everywhere ever since LLMs have been trained on OSS without credit or attribution? Why wouldn’t you want to hide your stuff going forward? In my view, OSS is only going to move more and more towards one of two models: open core + proprietary functionality (e.g. MongoDB) OR open source + private tests (e.g. SQLite).
  - xnickb 14d ago
    Doesn't have much to do with LLMs training on OSS imo. They just want to make money. Advancing technology is 2nd or even lower priority for them.
    - Cyph0n 14d ago
      My point is that this will likely become the norm thanks to LLMs, so expect more of this kind of structure going forward.
pqdbr 15d ago
The problem is that they don’t support bare metal. I’d love to use PlanetScale in our bare metal servers.
- samlambert 14d ago
  we support bare metal inside AWS, GCP, and very soon Azure
  - sroussey 14d ago
    what do you call bare metal in my office?
    - sgarland 14d ago
      On-prem.
  - pqdbr 14d ago
    Sorry, i should have been clearer: bare metal here meaning any other provider like, for instance, Hetzner. We use a local provider. 10x savings when compared to AWS.
  - SahAssar 14d ago
    That metal does not seem very bare if it requires a coating of AWS/GCP/Azure.

noir_lord 15d ago

Becoming more the norm for them, Neki is the same. Immediately rules out ever using them (though I don't currently have any problems that would benefit from that level of scale currently, have in the past though). Postgres's license allows this but for me (personally) it leaves a bad taste. Also it's not really "full-text search for Postgres" it's "full-text search for our hosted version of Postgres" so the title is a little misleading.

samlambert 15d ago
why?
dbbk 15d ago
Why would you need super fast search for local testing?
- Onavo 15d ago
  To avoid vendor lock-in.
  - dbbk 15d ago
    It's Postgres search any coding agent can switch you to something else in 5 minutes
zombodb 15d ago
Why don’t you like Postgres’ license? It’s as permissive as a license gets.
- noir_lord 14d ago
  Building non-open extensions on top of it, it's not the license I don't like, the bad taste is that they use something open extend it and keep part of it closed. The license allows it but on the flip side it's vendor lock-in predicated on using something open as the base. Fully proprietary no issue with that, full open, no issue with that, building proprietary on top of open is where the bad taste comes in. For completeness, it's not them specifically either, the other cloud companies do similar things and I suspect in part the reason they don't open these extensions up is because the others will but then they are doing the same thing themselves.
  - zombodb 14d ago
    When one develops using open-source software they have an obligation to follow the licenses. They also have a moral obligation to be respectful of the work upon which they’re building. And they have a social obligation to help improve that software where they can. Those that develop on top of open-source have no obligation to give you their work for free. You’d be surprised as to the amount of open-source contributions TIN drove towards Postgres, LLVM, and pgrx. And you’d be speechless at the amount of upstream work across all sorts of open-source PlanetScale does. Postgres 18.6, for example, is better for you today, in part, because of TIN. You’re welcome.
    - noir_lord 14d ago
      > You’re welcome. I didn't say thank you and don't presume I would, Planetscale acting in their own self interest by improving postgres upstream isn't deserving of thanks, any more than Intel upstreaming a bunch of Linux kernel work is or myriad other examples. Corporations acting in their self interest isn't worth giving thanks for, neither is the work of the people paid to do work on their behalf. I don't expect my employer to thank me, I expect them to pay me, I don't expect users of software I was paid to write to thank me because I did it for the money not out of altruism towards those users.
Cyph0n 14d ago
> Becoming more the norm for them, Neki is the same. Uh, isn’t this becoming the norm everywhere ever since LLMs have been trained on OSS without credit or attribution? Why wouldn’t you want to hide your stuff going forward? In my view, OSS is only going to move more and more towards one of two models: open core + proprietary functionality (e.g. MongoDB) OR open source + private tests (e.g. SQLite).
- xnickb 14d ago
  Doesn't have much to do with LLMs training on OSS imo. They just want to make money. Advancing technology is 2nd or even lower priority for them.
  - Cyph0n 14d ago
    My point is that this will likely become the norm thanks to LLMs, so expect more of this kind of structure going forward.

pqdbr 15d ago

The problem is that they don’t support bare metal. I’d love to use PlanetScale in our bare metal servers.

samlambert 14d ago
we support bare metal inside AWS, GCP, and very soon Azure
- sroussey 14d ago
  what do you call bare metal in my office?
  - sgarland 14d ago
    On-prem.
- pqdbr 14d ago
  Sorry, i should have been clearer: bare metal here meaning any other provider like, for instance, Hetzner. We use a local provider. 10x savings when compared to AWS.
- SahAssar 14d ago
  That metal does not seem very bare if it requires a coating of AWS/GCP/Azure.