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I will never understand how an intelligent, opinionated crowd like HN can be so obsessed over Apple's CPU offerings. Buying into the Mac ecosystem is without a

by khoirul 11d ago

I will never understand how an intelligent, opinionated crowd like HN can be so obsessed over Apple's CPU offerings. Buying into the Mac ecosystem is without a doubt subjecting oneself to vendor lock-in. Linux won't even run on these machines until in 2-3 years, if you're lucky.

websap 11d ago
We love these devices, because these are the best devices overall.
j3th9n 11d ago
I call it vendor cushion-in, all my devices are Apple and they work very well, also together.
GeekyBear 11d ago
An Nvidia GPU involves as much CUDA lock-in as Nvidia can manage, but it's also where the best performance is. People care about performance.
heavensteeth 11d ago
that doesn't mean it's unimpressive. it's purely a software problem, really.
brabel 11d ago
What kind of vendor lock in are you talking about?? I use Mac and Linux and don’t feel at all locked in by Apple.
- pacifika 11d ago
  Try and export a few thousand Notes entries with images. Change how you like your day to day workflows in terms of window management Share a home made app with some friends without helping them install it Fix a bug in the vendors software by writing a patch
  - ericmay 11d ago
    This doesn’t sound like vendor lock in to me, but user preferences.
  - zuhsetaqi 11d ago
    > Try and export a few thousand Notes entries with images. Not a problem, I don’t use Apple Notes on my Mac. > Change how you like your day to day workflows in terms of window management Not a problem, I can just customize my hammerspoon config to behave differently > Share a home made app with some friends without helping them install it That depends more on what my friends are using than what I use. Me using Linux wouldn’t make it any easier if they are using Windows or macOS. > Fix a bug in the vendors software by writing a patch Not being able to fix a bug in an OS doesn’t lock me into that OS. And there are bugs in any Linux distribution that are way too complex to fix even if theoretically possible. So it doesn’t make any difference. A MacBook is pretty much locked to macOS even if it’s theoretically possible to boot a different OS but that doesn’t make me locked into macOS. I can sell my MacBook for a very reasonable price and buy whatever I want.
    - lostmsu 11d ago
      > And there are bugs in any Linux distribution that are way too complex to fix even if theoretically possible. So it doesn’t make any difference. It does now with LLMs
- crossroadsguy 11d ago
  Running an OS of your choice? Easily? That kind?
  - deleted 11d ago
    [deleted]
  - brabel 11d ago
    The OS is mostly invisible to me. Except for the desktop manager but both Mac and Linux have options for that, I just don’t even feel the need to change the defaults. If I really need Linux for whatever reason, Docker makes that extremely easy on my Mac. I really can’t understand what Linux gives you that you would feel a need to change your OS on Mac.
    - crossroadsguy 11d ago
      > The OS is mostly invisible to me I always thought I was missing something on the Macs. That must be it. Cheers.
    - bigyabai 11d ago
      > I really can’t understand what Linux gives you that you would feel a need to change your OS on Mac. - Native Docker support in-kernel - High-performance Vulkan drivers - CUDA support (macOS doesn't sign CUDA drivers for some reason) - Support for NTFS, FAT32 and other common filesystems without using FUSE - Better package management with versioned rollback - System updates that don't force breaking changes Those are just the ones that stop me from returning to macOS (I left after Catalina).
      - brabel 11d ago
        Interesting how people find reasons even when they make no sense. When did you experience problems with Docker on Mac?? I couldn’t care less it’s not native, it just works. About CUDA, mac has great GPUs , so much so that it’s a fad now to buy mini Macs to run LLMs. I don’t know about why you would use those file systems, am I missing something so great about them? Package management is awesome on Mac with brew, people are even using Brew on Linux lately since it’s one of the best. About system updates, I don’t remember being forced to do it, quite the opposite, my old Macs stopped being able to update after 8 years I believe. Which is fine with me, they get pretty obsolete after so long , and I believe Linux Wasabi works on old Macs if I need it ( but I don’t , I have a Dell with Linux that I could use if I wanted Linux, but I never need it and that laptop was just headache for me, which is why I choose to only use my Macs now ). But to each its own though.
alpaca128 11d ago
No driver problems (well, first party ones at least), good performance and I can still run any software I like. I do prefer and run Linux on my desktop, and could complain about Apple and Mac OS all day. The level of polish is very inconsistent. But despite everything it's still not as user hostile as Windows got nowadays. "Linux won't even run on these machines until in 2-3 years, if you're lucky" I have yet to buy a Windows machine where Linux works perfectly with no issues whatsoever. My most compatible machine to date needed a USB-C ethernet adapter to get a network connection for more than 10 minutes at a time. So ironically old M series Macs might not be the worst choice given Asahi doesn't need to target every hardware configuration of the last couple decades.
angrydev 11d ago
Because I like being productive and earning money
BugsJustFindMe 11d ago
> "I will never understand how an intelligent..." IME intelligent people don't have difficulty understanding that different people want different things and that your computing preferences are not objectively more correct than someone else's.

by khoirul 11d ago

websap 11d ago

We love these devices, because these are the best devices overall.

j3th9n 11d ago

I call it vendor cushion-in, all my devices are Apple and they work very well, also together.

GeekyBear 11d ago

An Nvidia GPU involves as much CUDA lock-in as Nvidia can manage, but it's also where the best performance is. People care about performance.

heavensteeth 11d ago

that doesn't mean it's unimpressive. it's purely a software problem, really.

brabel 11d ago

What kind of vendor lock in are you talking about?? I use Mac and Linux and don’t feel at all locked in by Apple.

pacifika 11d ago
Try and export a few thousand Notes entries with images. Change how you like your day to day workflows in terms of window management Share a home made app with some friends without helping them install it Fix a bug in the vendors software by writing a patch
- ericmay 11d ago
  This doesn’t sound like vendor lock in to me, but user preferences.
- zuhsetaqi 11d ago
  > Try and export a few thousand Notes entries with images. Not a problem, I don’t use Apple Notes on my Mac. > Change how you like your day to day workflows in terms of window management Not a problem, I can just customize my hammerspoon config to behave differently > Share a home made app with some friends without helping them install it That depends more on what my friends are using than what I use. Me using Linux wouldn’t make it any easier if they are using Windows or macOS. > Fix a bug in the vendors software by writing a patch Not being able to fix a bug in an OS doesn’t lock me into that OS. And there are bugs in any Linux distribution that are way too complex to fix even if theoretically possible. So it doesn’t make any difference. A MacBook is pretty much locked to macOS even if it’s theoretically possible to boot a different OS but that doesn’t make me locked into macOS. I can sell my MacBook for a very reasonable price and buy whatever I want.
  - lostmsu 11d ago
    > And there are bugs in any Linux distribution that are way too complex to fix even if theoretically possible. So it doesn’t make any difference. It does now with LLMs
crossroadsguy 11d ago
Running an OS of your choice? Easily? That kind?
- deleted 11d ago
  [deleted]
- brabel 11d ago
  The OS is mostly invisible to me. Except for the desktop manager but both Mac and Linux have options for that, I just don’t even feel the need to change the defaults. If I really need Linux for whatever reason, Docker makes that extremely easy on my Mac. I really can’t understand what Linux gives you that you would feel a need to change your OS on Mac.
  - crossroadsguy 11d ago
    > The OS is mostly invisible to me I always thought I was missing something on the Macs. That must be it. Cheers.
  - bigyabai 11d ago
    > I really can’t understand what Linux gives you that you would feel a need to change your OS on Mac. - Native Docker support in-kernel - High-performance Vulkan drivers - CUDA support (macOS doesn't sign CUDA drivers for some reason) - Support for NTFS, FAT32 and other common filesystems without using FUSE - Better package management with versioned rollback - System updates that don't force breaking changes Those are just the ones that stop me from returning to macOS (I left after Catalina).
    - brabel 11d ago
      Interesting how people find reasons even when they make no sense. When did you experience problems with Docker on Mac?? I couldn’t care less it’s not native, it just works. About CUDA, mac has great GPUs , so much so that it’s a fad now to buy mini Macs to run LLMs. I don’t know about why you would use those file systems, am I missing something so great about them? Package management is awesome on Mac with brew, people are even using Brew on Linux lately since it’s one of the best. About system updates, I don’t remember being forced to do it, quite the opposite, my old Macs stopped being able to update after 8 years I believe. Which is fine with me, they get pretty obsolete after so long , and I believe Linux Wasabi works on old Macs if I need it ( but I don’t , I have a Dell with Linux that I could use if I wanted Linux, but I never need it and that laptop was just headache for me, which is why I choose to only use my Macs now ). But to each its own though.

alpaca128 11d ago

No driver problems (well, first party ones at least), good performance and I can still run any software I like. I do prefer and run Linux on my desktop, and could complain about Apple and Mac OS all day. The level of polish is very inconsistent. But despite everything it's still not as user hostile as Windows got nowadays. "Linux won't even run on these machines until in 2-3 years, if you're lucky" I have yet to buy a Windows machine where Linux works perfectly with no issues whatsoever. My most compatible machine to date needed a USB-C ethernet adapter to get a network connection for more than 10 minutes at a time. So ironically old M series Macs might not be the worst choice given Asahi doesn't need to target every hardware configuration of the last couple decades.

angrydev 11d ago

Because I like being productive and earning money

BugsJustFindMe 11d ago

> "I will never understand how an intelligent..." IME intelligent people don't have difficulty understanding that different people want different things and that your computing preferences are not objectively more correct than someone else's.