4 ms·

It's abundantly clear when a phone is new or previously-cleaned, they would consider that cause for suspicion all the same.

otterley 8d ago
Clear from what? Cite examples where this has happened, please.
- knownandunknown 8d ago
  Step 1: Person is detained. Step 2: They wipe their phone on the spot. Step 3: Police say they're hiding evidence. If step 2 happens at the border post detention, or prior to arrival at the border, the perspective to the police is all the same, they see a wiped phone. Police detained somebody, saw they had a wiped phone. Doesn't matter when they wiped it. Common sense...
  - otterley 8d ago
    The law distinguishes between not bringing evidence to a law enforcement encounter and destroying it in the middle of one. Please, ask an attorney and educate yourself before you continue.
    - knownandunknown 7d ago
      "The law" doesn't operate by standard norms at the border, almost like you missed the point of the original article. If they want to charge you with something, they'll find a way to do it. Not sure which version of the US you live in where all government actions follow the letter of the law, but it's not where the rest of us are. Read Samuel Tunick's article again: > Customs and Border Protection officers wanted to search his phone. After questioning, he eventually turned it over but gave officers a passcode that then erased the contents of his Google Pixel phone. If he had given them a blank phone, it wouldn't matter whether he had _just_ wiped it or had arrived with a wiped one, they would treat him all the same. > Please, ask an attorney and educate yourself before you continue. I've gone through this process at the border and have in fact consulted an attorney on precisely this. How about you do the same before you continue.
      - otterley 7d ago
        > If he had given them a blank phone, it wouldn't matter whether he had _just_ wiped it or had arrived with a wiped one, they would treat him all the same. Whether someone’s activity meets the elements of a destruction of evidence charge depends on context. Any competent attorney will tell you that. Wiping your phone once the encounter has begun, and especially in response to being asked to hand over the phone for inspection? Bad. Doing it before you board the plane? Less of a problem. A border agent might still question you more intensely if you show up at the encounter with a new or previously cleaned phone, but that’s not the same as being hauled off and criminally charged for destruction of evidence after the encounter has begun. > I've gone through this process at the border and have in fact consulted an attorney on precisely this. What did they tell you, exactly? And can you give me their contact info? > How about you do the same before you continue. I am an attorney. (Not legal advice, consult your own.)
        knownandunknown 7d ago
        >but that’s not the same as being hauled off and criminally charged for destruction of evidence after the encounter has begun. I'm glad you have so much faith in our system. > What did they tell you, exactly? That you have far fewer exercisable rights or guarantees at the border. > And can you give me their contact info? No thanks, I'm alright. >I am an attorney. (Not legal advice, consult your own.) I'm sure you are!
        otterley 7d ago
        > That you have far fewer exercisable rights or guarantees at the border. That’s true, but also not what we’re debating. We are debating whether, on inspection, having a new-appearing phone when you first encounter CBP will give rise to reasonable suspicion that you violated the law or are inadmissible and thus should be further investigated. I asked you for specific examples where this happened to someone, and you provided an example that didn’t fit the pattern. You gave some other story about someone who destroyed evidence in the middle of an encounter. If you don’t have an example that matches, that’s fine. But don’t then move the goalposts.

otterley 8d ago

Clear from what? Cite examples where this has happened, please.

knownandunknown 8d ago
Step 1: Person is detained. Step 2: They wipe their phone on the spot. Step 3: Police say they're hiding evidence. If step 2 happens at the border post detention, or prior to arrival at the border, the perspective to the police is all the same, they see a wiped phone. Police detained somebody, saw they had a wiped phone. Doesn't matter when they wiped it. Common sense...
- otterley 8d ago
  The law distinguishes between not bringing evidence to a law enforcement encounter and destroying it in the middle of one. Please, ask an attorney and educate yourself before you continue.
  - knownandunknown 7d ago
    "The law" doesn't operate by standard norms at the border, almost like you missed the point of the original article. If they want to charge you with something, they'll find a way to do it. Not sure which version of the US you live in where all government actions follow the letter of the law, but it's not where the rest of us are. Read Samuel Tunick's article again: > Customs and Border Protection officers wanted to search his phone. After questioning, he eventually turned it over but gave officers a passcode that then erased the contents of his Google Pixel phone. If he had given them a blank phone, it wouldn't matter whether he had _just_ wiped it or had arrived with a wiped one, they would treat him all the same. > Please, ask an attorney and educate yourself before you continue. I've gone through this process at the border and have in fact consulted an attorney on precisely this. How about you do the same before you continue.
    - otterley 7d ago
      > If he had given them a blank phone, it wouldn't matter whether he had _just_ wiped it or had arrived with a wiped one, they would treat him all the same. Whether someone’s activity meets the elements of a destruction of evidence charge depends on context. Any competent attorney will tell you that. Wiping your phone once the encounter has begun, and especially in response to being asked to hand over the phone for inspection? Bad. Doing it before you board the plane? Less of a problem. A border agent might still question you more intensely if you show up at the encounter with a new or previously cleaned phone, but that’s not the same as being hauled off and criminally charged for destruction of evidence after the encounter has begun. > I've gone through this process at the border and have in fact consulted an attorney on precisely this. What did they tell you, exactly? And can you give me their contact info? > How about you do the same before you continue. I am an attorney. (Not legal advice, consult your own.)
      - knownandunknown 7d ago
        >but that’s not the same as being hauled off and criminally charged for destruction of evidence after the encounter has begun. I'm glad you have so much faith in our system. > What did they tell you, exactly? That you have far fewer exercisable rights or guarantees at the border. > And can you give me their contact info? No thanks, I'm alright. >I am an attorney. (Not legal advice, consult your own.) I'm sure you are!
        otterley 7d ago
        > That you have far fewer exercisable rights or guarantees at the border. That’s true, but also not what we’re debating. We are debating whether, on inspection, having a new-appearing phone when you first encounter CBP will give rise to reasonable suspicion that you violated the law or are inadmissible and thus should be further investigated. I asked you for specific examples where this happened to someone, and you provided an example that didn’t fit the pattern. You gave some other story about someone who destroyed evidence in the middle of an encounter. If you don’t have an example that matches, that’s fine. But don’t then move the goalposts.