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> The newspaper also reported, citing another unidentified official, that not all of the undisclosed deaths were directly tied to the months-long conflict b

> The newspaper also reported, citing another unidentified official, that not all of the undisclosed deaths were directly tied to the months-long conflict but involved US personnel who were in the Middle East amid ongoing hostilities. If someone dies near a war, but not due to the war, is it really fair to count them as a war fatality?

lokar 13d ago
It's routinely written and recounted that for most wars in history more people died from disease than combat. But we still count them all as war deaths.
lukan 13d ago
If they are killed by houthi drones and not iranian drones, I would think so. If someone on a military base with no attacks going on, got a heart attack by watching the news, probably not a war fatality. But we don't know, so any concrete speculation is probably not very helpful.
- AnotherGoodName 13d ago
  To get more specific this often means 'suicide' which absolutely is a casualty of war given the strain of war conditions, especially given the logistics concerns and duration of tours that they are forcing right now.
  - mitxela 13d ago
    Did it end up being true that the troops on that aircraft carrier had to catch rats and cook them to survive?
    - ceejayoz 13d ago
      Are you, uh, mixing up the term "midrats" with something? I've not seen this claim. The fact that they sent it immediately home for a port call (and had SecNavy visit for a pep talk) when the news of conditions on the Lincoln broke is probably indicative.
  - Freedom2 13d ago
    What logistics concerns are there? Isn't the US supposed to be one of the best at managing wartime logistics, which is why they have bases all around the world?
    - ceejayoz 13d ago
      The fleet's HQ got wiped. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-us-naval-base-bahrain-e87bbca3 https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-us-naval-base-bah...
    - solid_fuel 13d ago
      They put an alcoholic fox news host in charge of the military and he fired or otherwise forced out a ton of experienced leaders in the name of "the warrior ethos" and "high testosterone soldiers". In a completely unrelated development the "worlds best logistics organization" is now having trouble with logistics.
      - fittingopposite 12d ago
        Man I had to read twice. Wondered what an "alcoholic fox" is...
    - MiroslavPokorny 12d ago
      The US has bases around the world because its auxiliary fleet is rather limited. Its always an advantage to have supplies nearby because shipping or flying anything thousands or half way around the world is just too hard. Lose those advantages and even the US military is troubled and the results are what we see today. It cant invade Iran and it cant even bomb or launch an invasion of Houthi territory. Did i mention the Ospreys which were built because of the Tehran Embassy hostages from the 1980s are grounded today or limited to very short trips because of constant mechanical failures ? Smokes and mirrors, its not a smart thing to show your enemy your weaknesses.
- throw0101a 13d ago
  > If someone on a military base with no attacks going on, got a heart attack by watching the news, probably not a war fatality. Were they at that base as a (say) mechanic servicing aircraft engines for flights over the Persian Gulf? Are the only reasons why the planes (and thus him) are there is because of the hostilities with Iran, as otherwise they would be States-side?
deleted 13d ago
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runako 13d ago
"With Covid, not of Covid," but for military casualties. One does see something new every day.
- Retric 13d ago
  There’s often more ambiguity than that. “Died of a COVID linked complication with COVID and other issue that is also linked to that complication.” You can’t spend endless resources deciding if something is or isn’t responsible. Systems use arbitrary buckets like if someone commits suicide in less than six months from coming home after a war might count it, while excluding every case after six months. That’s going to misclassify cases in both directions but means you don’t need to track millions of people for decades or look through mental health details. Obviously people with more data to work with can make a convincing case you’re wrong, but higher levels accuracy get expensive. In the end we know more than 1 million Americans died of COVID for example, how many more isn’t precisely known but ~1 million is plenty useful for decision making around the next pandemic.
  - runako 11d ago
    Was aiming for more pithy but the crux is > “Died of a COVID linked complication with COVID and other issue that is also linked to that complication.” Where people refused to acknowledge the "linked complication" part of it at all. Many people refused to consider a death as being due to Covid unless the person literally suffocated, ignoring Covid's clear links to many other cardiovascular conditions. Anyway, I agree with what you're saying here.
searealist 13d ago
It depends who is president.
deleted 13d ago
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lokar 13d ago

It's routinely written and recounted that for most wars in history more people died from disease than combat. But we still count them all as war deaths.

lukan 13d ago

If they are killed by houthi drones and not iranian drones, I would think so. If someone on a military base with no attacks going on, got a heart attack by watching the news, probably not a war fatality. But we don't know, so any concrete speculation is probably not very helpful.

AnotherGoodName 13d ago
To get more specific this often means 'suicide' which absolutely is a casualty of war given the strain of war conditions, especially given the logistics concerns and duration of tours that they are forcing right now.
- mitxela 13d ago
  Did it end up being true that the troops on that aircraft carrier had to catch rats and cook them to survive?
  - ceejayoz 13d ago
    Are you, uh, mixing up the term "midrats" with something? I've not seen this claim. The fact that they sent it immediately home for a port call (and had SecNavy visit for a pep talk) when the news of conditions on the Lincoln broke is probably indicative.
- Freedom2 13d ago
  What logistics concerns are there? Isn't the US supposed to be one of the best at managing wartime logistics, which is why they have bases all around the world?
  - ceejayoz 13d ago
    The fleet's HQ got wiped. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-us-naval-base-bahrain-e87bbca3 https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-us-naval-base-bah...
  - solid_fuel 13d ago
    They put an alcoholic fox news host in charge of the military and he fired or otherwise forced out a ton of experienced leaders in the name of "the warrior ethos" and "high testosterone soldiers". In a completely unrelated development the "worlds best logistics organization" is now having trouble with logistics.
    - fittingopposite 12d ago
      Man I had to read twice. Wondered what an "alcoholic fox" is...
  - MiroslavPokorny 12d ago
    The US has bases around the world because its auxiliary fleet is rather limited. Its always an advantage to have supplies nearby because shipping or flying anything thousands or half way around the world is just too hard. Lose those advantages and even the US military is troubled and the results are what we see today. It cant invade Iran and it cant even bomb or launch an invasion of Houthi territory. Did i mention the Ospreys which were built because of the Tehran Embassy hostages from the 1980s are grounded today or limited to very short trips because of constant mechanical failures ? Smokes and mirrors, its not a smart thing to show your enemy your weaknesses.
throw0101a 13d ago
> If someone on a military base with no attacks going on, got a heart attack by watching the news, probably not a war fatality. Were they at that base as a (say) mechanic servicing aircraft engines for flights over the Persian Gulf? Are the only reasons why the planes (and thus him) are there is because of the hostilities with Iran, as otherwise they would be States-side?

deleted 13d ago

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runako 13d ago

"With Covid, not of Covid," but for military casualties. One does see something new every day.

Retric 13d ago
There’s often more ambiguity than that. “Died of a COVID linked complication with COVID and other issue that is also linked to that complication.” You can’t spend endless resources deciding if something is or isn’t responsible. Systems use arbitrary buckets like if someone commits suicide in less than six months from coming home after a war might count it, while excluding every case after six months. That’s going to misclassify cases in both directions but means you don’t need to track millions of people for decades or look through mental health details. Obviously people with more data to work with can make a convincing case you’re wrong, but higher levels accuracy get expensive. In the end we know more than 1 million Americans died of COVID for example, how many more isn’t precisely known but ~1 million is plenty useful for decision making around the next pandemic.
- runako 11d ago
  Was aiming for more pithy but the crux is > “Died of a COVID linked complication with COVID and other issue that is also linked to that complication.” Where people refused to acknowledge the "linked complication" part of it at all. Many people refused to consider a death as being due to Covid unless the person literally suffocated, ignoring Covid's clear links to many other cardiovascular conditions. Anyway, I agree with what you're saying here.

searealist 13d ago

It depends who is president.

deleted 13d ago

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