3 ms·

Your opinion surprises me. Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it. IIRC, the UK has opted out

Your opinion surprises me. Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it. IIRC, the UK has opted out of Schengen and the Euro. That would look OK to me were we not talking of two core EU projects that were supposed to be game changers. Coming from a country that is currently under an European assistance program, I am not myself very fond of the "Chancellor", but your opinion seems to be purely based on the hatred for a particular country and simple anglophilia. It's clear that the EU must have common laws. And it's clear that if the EU is supposed to ever become a superpower in the economic and geopolitical sense, a free trade zone will not suffice. Believe me, European laws don't please everyone. e.g. production quotas have seriously harmed economies that were highly reliant on agricultural production. And regarding Greece... well, Greece has played foul from the beginning. Greek authorities have purposefully reported lower than reality deficit figure as early as 1999. Of course the EU failed there too, and I'm convinced that austerity measures are not the best solution for this mess. But saying that Greece is being "punished" because it has refused to follow a particular model is a clear exaggeration.

PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
EU is a failing Project that has chosen to ignore democratic procedures and no-votes for decades. It doesn't work, it never did and it never will. It's basic economics that you can't have the same central bank for two countries like Germany and Greece, isn't it? But not when integration unelected fanatics like ex-marxist Barroso come into play. They don't care about nuances like democratic NOs or economic commonse sense. They want to build this - as you called it - superpower - at all costs and against the people. And people are tired of this nonsense. It may look fine when you sit in Eastern Europe and get all the funds. But think for German taxpayer for a while who now has to pay for your infrastruture, meet your debt obligations in case something goes wrong, and import all the unemployed form your country. How much longer do you think Germans will take it? Of course, it's nice to be on the receiving end. But being in an economic crisis + having your own unemployed + tax hikes for your highways, do you think this makes EU popular among German voters? No, it doesn't. If Germany was given a chance there is a good chance they would opt to exit as well. Eastern Europe is very pro-EU because it is bribed by all the money stolen from the Western Europe. But nobody, really nobody, in the West wants to stay on the board of the Titanic anymore.
- _pferreir_ 14y ago
  Your speech is starting to sound too stereotypical and plain xenophobic to be taken seriously, but I'll give it a try. Countries that "import unemployed people" do so for their own good. Or do you know a lot of Brits currently willing to do housecleaning work or have a factory job? Switzerland is a good example of that. ~30% foreign workers, most of them doing the jobs that Swiss people themselves would rather not do. It's very easy to blame people from other countries for you own problems, but they're paying their taxes too, just like anyone else. Plus, Germany exports a lot to other EU countries. It's not like they're in the EU for the sole noble purpose of European prosperity.
  - PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
    "Stereotypical" and "plain xenophobic" speech is yours not mine: Countries that "import unemployed people" do so for their own good. Or do you know a lot of Brits currently willing to do housecleaning work or have a factory job? Thank you for admitting that Germany might actually have a hidden agenda behind all this crazy pro-EU talk. Cheers!
- aemerson 14y ago
  Don't pretend that Germany didn't benefit hugely from the economic integration of weaker countries such as Greece. It takes two to tango, and tango you did. The single currency tied the economies together, it allowed Greeks to use the cheap credit of the German economy to buy what? German cars. Germany's export businesses grew hugely because of the real value of the euro was weaker than the Deutsche Mark. This is a problem where no single party is at fault. Yes, the Greeks were irresponsible with the credit but it's not the full story. Apart from that, I agree with your points about the general economic union. Without a peaceful political and cultural one, it was doomed to fail.
archangel_one 14y ago
> Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it. Considering that the UK is the fourth-largest contributor to the EU budget, paying more than we get back, and haven't benefited from the Euro in the way that eg. Germany has, I would say that we're giving you plenty of cake. There's no reason the EU has to be an all-or-nothing affair; there are plenty of other countries that have opted out of the Euro as well, and frankly with the chaos over Greece which has been heavily caused by their uncompetitiveness in a shared currency, I don't think you're in a great position to criticise that decision.

PoliticsJunkie 14y ago

EU is a failing Project that has chosen to ignore democratic procedures and no-votes for decades. It doesn't work, it never did and it never will. It's basic economics that you can't have the same central bank for two countries like Germany and Greece, isn't it? But not when integration unelected fanatics like ex-marxist Barroso come into play. They don't care about nuances like democratic NOs or economic commonse sense. They want to build this - as you called it - superpower - at all costs and against the people. And people are tired of this nonsense. It may look fine when you sit in Eastern Europe and get all the funds. But think for German taxpayer for a while who now has to pay for your infrastruture, meet your debt obligations in case something goes wrong, and import all the unemployed form your country. How much longer do you think Germans will take it? Of course, it's nice to be on the receiving end. But being in an economic crisis + having your own unemployed + tax hikes for your highways, do you think this makes EU popular among German voters? No, it doesn't. If Germany was given a chance there is a good chance they would opt to exit as well. Eastern Europe is very pro-EU because it is bribed by all the money stolen from the Western Europe. But nobody, really nobody, in the West wants to stay on the board of the Titanic anymore.

_pferreir_ 14y ago
Your speech is starting to sound too stereotypical and plain xenophobic to be taken seriously, but I'll give it a try. Countries that "import unemployed people" do so for their own good. Or do you know a lot of Brits currently willing to do housecleaning work or have a factory job? Switzerland is a good example of that. ~30% foreign workers, most of them doing the jobs that Swiss people themselves would rather not do. It's very easy to blame people from other countries for you own problems, but they're paying their taxes too, just like anyone else. Plus, Germany exports a lot to other EU countries. It's not like they're in the EU for the sole noble purpose of European prosperity.
- PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
  "Stereotypical" and "plain xenophobic" speech is yours not mine: Countries that "import unemployed people" do so for their own good. Or do you know a lot of Brits currently willing to do housecleaning work or have a factory job? Thank you for admitting that Germany might actually have a hidden agenda behind all this crazy pro-EU talk. Cheers!
aemerson 14y ago
Don't pretend that Germany didn't benefit hugely from the economic integration of weaker countries such as Greece. It takes two to tango, and tango you did. The single currency tied the economies together, it allowed Greeks to use the cheap credit of the German economy to buy what? German cars. Germany's export businesses grew hugely because of the real value of the euro was weaker than the Deutsche Mark. This is a problem where no single party is at fault. Yes, the Greeks were irresponsible with the credit but it's not the full story. Apart from that, I agree with your points about the general economic union. Without a peaceful political and cultural one, it was doomed to fail.

archangel_one 14y ago

> Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it. Considering that the UK is the fourth-largest contributor to the EU budget, paying more than we get back, and haven't benefited from the Euro in the way that eg. Germany has, I would say that we're giving you plenty of cake. There's no reason the EU has to be an all-or-nothing affair; there are plenty of other countries that have opted out of the Euro as well, and frankly with the chaos over Greece which has been heavily caused by their uncompetitiveness in a shared currency, I don't think you're in a great position to criticise that decision.