3 ms·

"Building blocks" makes it sound like things you can use to build other things. In reality it's more of an octopus, or a fungus.

9dev 8d ago
But that’s precisely what it allows you to do: plug a socket unit into a service unit, connect a timer unit, then another service as a dependency… and that’s just for the init management. Systemd might not fit your personal stylistic preferences, but most of all it’s consistent.
- Joker_vD 8d ago
  Yeah, like what Upstart did! Why did we switch away from that, again?
  - c-hendricks 8d ago
    Didn't have timers for one, or the same level of support around sockets.
  - the_why_of_y 7d ago
    Because firstly, it had a broken architecture. https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/406397/comments/21 https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/406397/comments/21 https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/447654/comments/6 https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/447654/comments/6 Secondly, Canonical required copyright assignment for any contribution to Upstart, and Lennart/Kay decided that if they basically have to substantially rewrite it to fix the broken architecture, they better do it in a new project with no copyright assignment barriers. See the comments in this thread by Upstart author and former Canonical employee Scott James Remnant: https://web.archive.org/web/20140928104327/https://plus.google.com/+KaySievers/posts/C3chC26khpq https://web.archive.org/web/20140928104327/https://plus.goog... Had the CLA not been in place, the result of the LF Collab discussions would have almost certainly been contributions of patches from +Kay Sievers and Lennart (after all, we'd all worked together on things like udev, and got along) that would have fixed all those design issues, etc. But the CLA prevented them from doing that (I won't sign the CLA myself, which is one reason I don't contribute since leaving Canonical - so I hold no grudges here), so history happened differently. After our April 2010 meeting, Lennart went away and wrote systemd, which was released in July 2010 if memory serves.
- throw0101a 7d ago
  > But that’s precisely what it allows you to do And if I don't want a building block like logind or journald, can I not use them? Can I take those blocks elsewhere, like over to FreeBSD and use them there? SystemD is not "building blocks" — which implies modularity — it is a monolith: components cannot be added or taken away or replaced. The best you can do is maybe run disable --now. (I'm at least thankful I can usually do an apt purge resolved.)

9dev 8d ago

But that’s precisely what it allows you to do: plug a socket unit into a service unit, connect a timer unit, then another service as a dependency… and that’s just for the init management. Systemd might not fit your personal stylistic preferences, but most of all it’s consistent.

Joker_vD 8d ago
Yeah, like what Upstart did! Why did we switch away from that, again?
- c-hendricks 8d ago
  Didn't have timers for one, or the same level of support around sockets.
- the_why_of_y 7d ago
  Because firstly, it had a broken architecture. https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/406397/comments/21 https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/406397/comments/21 https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/447654/comments/6 https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/447654/comments/6 Secondly, Canonical required copyright assignment for any contribution to Upstart, and Lennart/Kay decided that if they basically have to substantially rewrite it to fix the broken architecture, they better do it in a new project with no copyright assignment barriers. See the comments in this thread by Upstart author and former Canonical employee Scott James Remnant: https://web.archive.org/web/20140928104327/https://plus.google.com/+KaySievers/posts/C3chC26khpq https://web.archive.org/web/20140928104327/https://plus.goog... Had the CLA not been in place, the result of the LF Collab discussions would have almost certainly been contributions of patches from +Kay Sievers and Lennart (after all, we'd all worked together on things like udev, and got along) that would have fixed all those design issues, etc. But the CLA prevented them from doing that (I won't sign the CLA myself, which is one reason I don't contribute since leaving Canonical - so I hold no grudges here), so history happened differently. After our April 2010 meeting, Lennart went away and wrote systemd, which was released in July 2010 if memory serves.
throw0101a 7d ago
> But that’s precisely what it allows you to do And if I don't want a building block like logind or journald, can I not use them? Can I take those blocks elsewhere, like over to FreeBSD and use them there? SystemD is not "building blocks" — which implies modularity — it is a monolith: components cannot be added or taken away or replaced. The best you can do is maybe run disable --now. (I'm at least thankful I can usually do an apt purge resolved.)