2 ms·

I don't doubt that people walk around with conflicting, internalized geographies in their heads, I'm just pointing out that it's disingenuous to frame your own

I don't doubt that people walk around with conflicting, internalized geographies in their heads, I'm just pointing out that it's disingenuous to frame your own biases as something "most Americans" think when you don't have the data to back up such a statement. It's a very specific extrapolation to make.

jlgreco 14y ago
I am stating two things: 1) Americans generalize. Defense: Everybody does, it should be no suprise that Americans are no exception. You really want data on this? 2) Americans, for the most part, do not think that all of Africa is "Africa-y", nor that all of Asia is "Asia-y", nor that all of Europe is "Europey". Defense: Suggestions otherwise are absurd. If you disagree, you provide the data.
- lobster_johnson 14y ago
  I was referring to your specific examples (Budapest, Egypt, Africa) as well as your thesis (Americans have certain finer-grained generalizations). Not saying your conclusions are incorrect, just that your only data point is yourself, even though you phrase your comments as though you had tons of data. Everything else is just speculation, gut feeling, pop psychology, outright invention etc.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    Even if my particular examples are specific to myself, the point remains intact and true of the larger population. But really, India not being 'Asian' despite being in Asia is a readily observable American phenomenon. If you haven't noticed that, you either have not spent much time in America, or are deluding yourself. And can you really deny that Egypt is treated differently in popular culture than what is commonly referred to as "Africa"? Do you actually disagree that this is the case, or are you just being a curmudgeon because I dared speak without first securing a sociology degree and perform a study? You really want some data? The entire concept of "Middle East" is a pretty decent example of how Americans generalize at a finer grain than "continent". Go do a google news search for "Middle East". Count the results, enjoy your precious data. Would you also demand data of someone who said that Americans think the sky is blue?
    - lobster_johnson 14y ago
      Apologies if I am coming across as a curmudgeon. Although you do seem to have been missing my point. I am not questioning the truth of your statements -- for all I know you may be right. I am questioning the form in which they are offered, in a discussion which is already rife with personal opinions disguised as fact. Everyone has an opinion; facts are harder to come by. Specifically, I pointed out that when you say "most Americans", you are just (as you readily admit) extrapolating from yourself. Why not just say "I"? That seems more truthful. I can't reasonably claim to know what "most Americans "think, and neither should you, I think. Extrapolating is just another way of assuming. Sorry about the tangent.
  - pixl97 14y ago
    The best data I would suggest looking at is American news. Correlate Egypt with African news and then again correlate Egypt with Middle Eastern news. American news will tend to display stories related to Egypt's interactions with countries such as Israel, Iran, Iraq, and other Asian countries lumped together under 'middle east'. The next most common news grouping for Egypt would be Mediterranean, dealing with with countries such Libya politically and then in vacation destinations around the sea itself. Very little broadcast news in America is about countries outside of the Mediterranean and Middle East influence. You don't hear much about Egypt's and Sudan's relationships unless you tend to go looking for it. Contrast that to Egyptian and Israeli relationships. With the advent of the Internet changing the way we view and seek out news our will change our generalizations of geography greatly over time. But to understand the generalizations we have now in the 30's and up age group, replaying the 'Nightly News with Tom Brokaw' would lead to great insight.

jlgreco 14y ago

I am stating two things: 1) Americans generalize. Defense: Everybody does, it should be no suprise that Americans are no exception. You really want data on this? 2) Americans, for the most part, do not think that all of Africa is "Africa-y", nor that all of Asia is "Asia-y", nor that all of Europe is "Europey". Defense: Suggestions otherwise are absurd. If you disagree, you provide the data.

lobster_johnson 14y ago
I was referring to your specific examples (Budapest, Egypt, Africa) as well as your thesis (Americans have certain finer-grained generalizations). Not saying your conclusions are incorrect, just that your only data point is yourself, even though you phrase your comments as though you had tons of data. Everything else is just speculation, gut feeling, pop psychology, outright invention etc.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  Even if my particular examples are specific to myself, the point remains intact and true of the larger population. But really, India not being 'Asian' despite being in Asia is a readily observable American phenomenon. If you haven't noticed that, you either have not spent much time in America, or are deluding yourself. And can you really deny that Egypt is treated differently in popular culture than what is commonly referred to as "Africa"? Do you actually disagree that this is the case, or are you just being a curmudgeon because I dared speak without first securing a sociology degree and perform a study? You really want some data? The entire concept of "Middle East" is a pretty decent example of how Americans generalize at a finer grain than "continent". Go do a google news search for "Middle East". Count the results, enjoy your precious data. Would you also demand data of someone who said that Americans think the sky is blue?
  - lobster_johnson 14y ago
    Apologies if I am coming across as a curmudgeon. Although you do seem to have been missing my point. I am not questioning the truth of your statements -- for all I know you may be right. I am questioning the form in which they are offered, in a discussion which is already rife with personal opinions disguised as fact. Everyone has an opinion; facts are harder to come by. Specifically, I pointed out that when you say "most Americans", you are just (as you readily admit) extrapolating from yourself. Why not just say "I"? That seems more truthful. I can't reasonably claim to know what "most Americans "think, and neither should you, I think. Extrapolating is just another way of assuming. Sorry about the tangent.
- pixl97 14y ago
  The best data I would suggest looking at is American news. Correlate Egypt with African news and then again correlate Egypt with Middle Eastern news. American news will tend to display stories related to Egypt's interactions with countries such as Israel, Iran, Iraq, and other Asian countries lumped together under 'middle east'. The next most common news grouping for Egypt would be Mediterranean, dealing with with countries such Libya politically and then in vacation destinations around the sea itself. Very little broadcast news in America is about countries outside of the Mediterranean and Middle East influence. You don't hear much about Egypt's and Sudan's relationships unless you tend to go looking for it. Contrast that to Egyptian and Israeli relationships. With the advent of the Internet changing the way we view and seek out news our will change our generalizations of geography greatly over time. But to understand the generalizations we have now in the 30's and up age group, replaying the 'Nightly News with Tom Brokaw' would lead to great insight.