3 ms·

> If you asked most Americans ... they would say How do you know what they would say? Aren't you wildly speculating, while at the same time inventing answers t

> If you asked most Americans ... they would say How do you know what they would say? Aren't you wildly speculating, while at the same time inventing answers to imaginary surveys? I really dislike this kind of argumentation. This thread has a huge amount of Malcolm Gladwell-esque gut-feeling-generalization-disguised-as-indisputable-fact, but it adds nothing and only serves to validate the OP's point, which is that generalizations are bad because they are usually wrong.

jlgreco 14y ago
I am extrapolating from myself. Ask a kid to "Draw Africa" and you will get a wildly different picture than if you ask the kid to "Draw Egypt". Clearly the child is not generalizing all of Africa; the child does not include Egypt in the internalized perception of what Africa "is" even though they know full well that Egypt is in Africa. This isn't some sort of strange emergent phenomenon, it is nothing more than the result of how places are portrayed in popular media. "Egypt" and "Africa" are distinct destinations, despite the (well understood) geographic reality. It shouldn't be a controversial statement, I am not saying anything that is the slightest bit profound.
- lobster_johnson 14y ago
  I don't doubt that people walk around with conflicting, internalized geographies in their heads, I'm just pointing out that it's disingenuous to frame your own biases as something "most Americans" think when you don't have the data to back up such a statement. It's a very specific extrapolation to make.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    I am stating two things: 1) Americans generalize. Defense: Everybody does, it should be no suprise that Americans are no exception. You really want data on this? 2) Americans, for the most part, do not think that all of Africa is "Africa-y", nor that all of Asia is "Asia-y", nor that all of Europe is "Europey". Defense: Suggestions otherwise are absurd. If you disagree, you provide the data.
    - lobster_johnson 14y ago
      I was referring to your specific examples (Budapest, Egypt, Africa) as well as your thesis (Americans have certain finer-grained generalizations). Not saying your conclusions are incorrect, just that your only data point is yourself, even though you phrase your comments as though you had tons of data. Everything else is just speculation, gut feeling, pop psychology, outright invention etc.
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        Even if my particular examples are specific to myself, the point remains intact and true of the larger population. But really, India not being 'Asian' despite being in Asia is a readily observable American phenomenon. If you haven't noticed that, you either have not spent much time in America, or are deluding yourself. And can you really deny that Egypt is treated differently in popular culture than what is commonly referred to as "Africa"? Do you actually disagree that this is the case, or are you just being a curmudgeon because I dared speak without first securing a sociology degree and perform a study? You really want some data? The entire concept of "Middle East" is a pretty decent example of how Americans generalize at a finer grain than "continent". Go do a google news search for "Middle East". Count the results, enjoy your precious data. Would you also demand data of someone who said that Americans think the sky is blue?
        lobster_johnson 14y ago
        Apologies if I am coming across as a curmudgeon. Although you do seem to have been missing my point. I am not questioning the truth of your statements -- for all I know you may be right. I am questioning the form in which they are offered, in a discussion which is already rife with personal opinions disguised as fact. Everyone has an opinion; facts are harder to come by. Specifically, I pointed out that when you say "most Americans", you are just (as you readily admit) extrapolating from yourself. Why not just say "I"? That seems more truthful. I can't reasonably claim to know what "most Americans "think, and neither should you, I think. Extrapolating is just another way of assuming. Sorry about the tangent.
      - 14y ago

jlgreco 14y ago

I am extrapolating from myself. Ask a kid to "Draw Africa" and you will get a wildly different picture than if you ask the kid to "Draw Egypt". Clearly the child is not generalizing all of Africa; the child does not include Egypt in the internalized perception of what Africa "is" even though they know full well that Egypt is in Africa. This isn't some sort of strange emergent phenomenon, it is nothing more than the result of how places are portrayed in popular media. "Egypt" and "Africa" are distinct destinations, despite the (well understood) geographic reality. It shouldn't be a controversial statement, I am not saying anything that is the slightest bit profound.

lobster_johnson 14y ago
I don't doubt that people walk around with conflicting, internalized geographies in their heads, I'm just pointing out that it's disingenuous to frame your own biases as something "most Americans" think when you don't have the data to back up such a statement. It's a very specific extrapolation to make.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  I am stating two things: 1) Americans generalize. Defense: Everybody does, it should be no suprise that Americans are no exception. You really want data on this? 2) Americans, for the most part, do not think that all of Africa is "Africa-y", nor that all of Asia is "Asia-y", nor that all of Europe is "Europey". Defense: Suggestions otherwise are absurd. If you disagree, you provide the data.
  - lobster_johnson 14y ago
    I was referring to your specific examples (Budapest, Egypt, Africa) as well as your thesis (Americans have certain finer-grained generalizations). Not saying your conclusions are incorrect, just that your only data point is yourself, even though you phrase your comments as though you had tons of data. Everything else is just speculation, gut feeling, pop psychology, outright invention etc.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      Even if my particular examples are specific to myself, the point remains intact and true of the larger population. But really, India not being 'Asian' despite being in Asia is a readily observable American phenomenon. If you haven't noticed that, you either have not spent much time in America, or are deluding yourself. And can you really deny that Egypt is treated differently in popular culture than what is commonly referred to as "Africa"? Do you actually disagree that this is the case, or are you just being a curmudgeon because I dared speak without first securing a sociology degree and perform a study? You really want some data? The entire concept of "Middle East" is a pretty decent example of how Americans generalize at a finer grain than "continent". Go do a google news search for "Middle East". Count the results, enjoy your precious data. Would you also demand data of someone who said that Americans think the sky is blue?
      - lobster_johnson 14y ago
        Apologies if I am coming across as a curmudgeon. Although you do seem to have been missing my point. I am not questioning the truth of your statements -- for all I know you may be right. I am questioning the form in which they are offered, in a discussion which is already rife with personal opinions disguised as fact. Everyone has an opinion; facts are harder to come by. Specifically, I pointed out that when you say "most Americans", you are just (as you readily admit) extrapolating from yourself. Why not just say "I"? That seems more truthful. I can't reasonably claim to know what "most Americans "think, and neither should you, I think. Extrapolating is just another way of assuming. Sorry about the tangent.
    - 14y ago