4 ms·

The FAA's plan to fix air traffic? $875M worth of AI

23 points by danso 16d ago

bmitc 16d ago
Isn't the staffing shortage directly because of Trump?
- genocidicbunny 16d ago
  Not fully. There's a lot of institutional inertia that makes it hard to train and hire new ATC controllers. The pay isn't that great, it requires a lot of education, and you might have to move to some small city to get started for your career -- you're not gonna be doing JFK fresh out of certification. That might be fine if you're in your early 20's, but by the time you're qualified to be ATC you've probably got more than just job goals in your life. And unlike the military->civilian pipeline for pilots, there's not that many people who could transition to civilian ATC after a military career. The current admin is probably not helping much, but it's an issue that goes back quite a bit.
- ChiperSoft 16d ago
  Sadly the problem predated him, the FAA has been under funded for a long time. Last Week Tonight did a really good segment about it a year ago. However, Trump absolutely made it a lot worse. https://youtu.be/YeABJbvcJ_k?si=bX_tKbHSl6EpMJce https://youtu.be/YeABJbvcJ_k?si=bX_tKbHSl6EpMJce
StanislavPetrov 16d ago
Hallucinations when it comes to air traffic are going to be just swell.
itopaloglu83 16d ago
I don’t understand why we’re using a voice based system to pass along a couple of structs worth of data for decades now. You want to get your approach clearance or weather report? Just call up the ATC on busy line with bunch of people talking fast and over each other.
- rudedogg 16d ago
  Yeah, I listen/watch some flight radar youtube and it’s insane how many issues arise from the language barrier, which could be solved by just communicating via a text channel
  - tjohns 16d ago
    CPDLC exists and is used. It has its limitations though - it doesn’t provide as much flexibility for pilot replies, pilots don’t always have a free hand to text with (especially in turbulence), and is generally slower and more clumsy than voice so is only suitable for routine, non-time-sensitive messages.
    - itopaloglu83 16d ago
      That sounds like a system that was bound to fail, because it was kept limited to a certain range of capabilities. One can easily imagine a system that broadcasts the weather and clearance, and even aircraft location data close to real-time, and provide great situational awareness to everyone involved. I don't think it's acceptable to put tens of thousands of people within a crowded airspace and not do everything in our power to keep things organized and secure.
      - tjohns 12d ago
        > That sounds like a system that was bound to fail, because it was kept limited to a certain range of capabilities. You're always going to be limited to a limited range of capabilities. You can't run a full web browser in every cockpit - you need a standardized interface that works across different vendors, across borders, and over a low-bandwidth radio link. And I don't think anybody considers CPDLC a failure. The goal was never to 100% replace voice communication. > One can easily imagine a system that broadcasts the weather That exists, it's called FIS-B. Everyone uses it. > and clearance Clearance isn't something that can just be broadcast. You need to have a conversation with the pilot to make sure the clearance is acceptable to them. The pilot needs the ability to reject the clearance and request amendments. > even aircraft location data close to real-time, and provide great situational awareness to everyone involved. This exists, it's called ADS-B. Everyone uses it.
gepardi 16d ago
“Cloud-based”. What happens when the cloud services experience an issue? This seems like a bad idea in general.

23 points by danso 16d ago

bmitc 16d ago

Isn't the staffing shortage directly because of Trump?

genocidicbunny 16d ago
Not fully. There's a lot of institutional inertia that makes it hard to train and hire new ATC controllers. The pay isn't that great, it requires a lot of education, and you might have to move to some small city to get started for your career -- you're not gonna be doing JFK fresh out of certification. That might be fine if you're in your early 20's, but by the time you're qualified to be ATC you've probably got more than just job goals in your life. And unlike the military->civilian pipeline for pilots, there's not that many people who could transition to civilian ATC after a military career. The current admin is probably not helping much, but it's an issue that goes back quite a bit.
ChiperSoft 16d ago
Sadly the problem predated him, the FAA has been under funded for a long time. Last Week Tonight did a really good segment about it a year ago. However, Trump absolutely made it a lot worse. https://youtu.be/YeABJbvcJ_k?si=bX_tKbHSl6EpMJce https://youtu.be/YeABJbvcJ_k?si=bX_tKbHSl6EpMJce

StanislavPetrov 16d ago

Hallucinations when it comes to air traffic are going to be just swell.

itopaloglu83 16d ago

I don’t understand why we’re using a voice based system to pass along a couple of structs worth of data for decades now. You want to get your approach clearance or weather report? Just call up the ATC on busy line with bunch of people talking fast and over each other.

rudedogg 16d ago
Yeah, I listen/watch some flight radar youtube and it’s insane how many issues arise from the language barrier, which could be solved by just communicating via a text channel
- tjohns 16d ago
  CPDLC exists and is used. It has its limitations though - it doesn’t provide as much flexibility for pilot replies, pilots don’t always have a free hand to text with (especially in turbulence), and is generally slower and more clumsy than voice so is only suitable for routine, non-time-sensitive messages.
  - itopaloglu83 16d ago
    That sounds like a system that was bound to fail, because it was kept limited to a certain range of capabilities. One can easily imagine a system that broadcasts the weather and clearance, and even aircraft location data close to real-time, and provide great situational awareness to everyone involved. I don't think it's acceptable to put tens of thousands of people within a crowded airspace and not do everything in our power to keep things organized and secure.
    - tjohns 12d ago
      > That sounds like a system that was bound to fail, because it was kept limited to a certain range of capabilities. You're always going to be limited to a limited range of capabilities. You can't run a full web browser in every cockpit - you need a standardized interface that works across different vendors, across borders, and over a low-bandwidth radio link. And I don't think anybody considers CPDLC a failure. The goal was never to 100% replace voice communication. > One can easily imagine a system that broadcasts the weather That exists, it's called FIS-B. Everyone uses it. > and clearance Clearance isn't something that can just be broadcast. You need to have a conversation with the pilot to make sure the clearance is acceptable to them. The pilot needs the ability to reject the clearance and request amendments. > even aircraft location data close to real-time, and provide great situational awareness to everyone involved. This exists, it's called ADS-B. Everyone uses it.

gepardi 16d ago

“Cloud-based”. What happens when the cloud services experience an issue? This seems like a bad idea in general.