7 ms·

Like we can prevent the rest of our society from devolving into the Medieval Era of secrecy: by treating individuals with respect and dignity and not as the ore

by Arubis 15d ago

Like we can prevent the rest of our society from devolving into the Medieval Era of secrecy: by treating individuals with respect and dignity and not as the ore from which resources can be profitably extracted.

FactNotFeeling 15d ago
Any solutions to this issue that aren't unrealistic socialist pipe dreams?
- darig 15d ago
  [dead]
- krapp 15d ago
  Only realistic capitalist nightmares.
- PostOnce 15d ago
  You could've asked that about people saying we want 8 hour work days, sick leave, and safer work 100 years ago, and yet we got them.
  - ungovernableCat 15d ago
    Those were fought for, with large strikes and sadly bloodshed and conflict. The pressing issue is that in the industrial revolution, capital needed labour so strikes are ineffective. How do people fight for their rights in a system that sees no need for them? Especially in one where power is concentrating and politics is frequently on sale to the highest bidder.
    - mitxela 14d ago
      In the margins, guerilla-style. A system having no need for me means it doesn't need to know I exist, or can be placated with fake data about me.
- AngryData 15d ago
  Why is socialism a pipe dream? Unions and co-ops aren't pipe dreams, and if we had nation wide unions or converted most businesses into co-ops, we would arguably be living under a socialist economy. If people had direct voting power over economic and business issues that would be socialism. Some methods are more realistic than others, but I don't see a requirement for any outlandish ideas.
- somerandomqaguy 15d ago
  Patent system? I know lot of folks on Hacker News hates patents but that was the whole point of them: the patent holder got exclusive rights to the invention for 20 years. But the trade off was that specific details about the invention, how it worked and how it's made were entered openly for anyone to look up. The patent holder would basically benefit it for the majority of his or her life but then after that it was permanently part of the public domain. AFAIK it was the reason why the patent system was invented, otherwise the best option jealous guarding of trade secrets that ideally (for the secret holder) died with them.
- sien 15d ago
  Yep. Muddling through with markets, democracy and welfare. Global life expectancy was 34 in 1913. Today it's 70. https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy Global GDP was less than 1Trn until about 1800. In 1950 it was 11.7Trn . Today it's 157 Trn. In a life time it's gone up by more than 10 fold. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-gdp-over-the-long-run https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-gdp-over-the-long-... People are living longer, richer lives all over the world. The world's largest country grew at 7.8% last year. https://www.reuters.com/world/india/why-indias-strong-gdp-growth-is-raising-eyebrows-2026-09-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/india/why-indias-strong-gdp-gr... Things are getting better. Look at the data, work at what you do and ignore the doom sayers.
  - esafak 14d ago
    I don't doubt that AI might increase the GDP but it will happen at the expense of the many.
    - mitxela 14d ago
      GDP is just a measure of how expensive things are: inflation. It literally measures the total price of all the things that are bought and sold.
  - mitxela 14d ago
    In 2060 it will be 34
- antonvs 15d ago
  It’s telling that you think treating people with respect and dignity is “socialist”. In a sane society it should be easy to argue against that claim, but looking around in the US at least, it turns out you’re correct: that doesn’t seem to be the norm under US-style capitalism. Luckily we have other countries to provide an example here.
- dns_snek 14d ago
  Yes. The first step could be a socialist system that preserves a market-based economy that avoids the horrors of private ownership of capital as well as the hubris of centrally managed economies. The primary goal should be democratic management of the means of production.
kouru225 15d ago
Might as well go tell depressed people to just stop being depressed
- PorciiVorbesc 15d ago
  Or homeless people to just buy a house.
  - thejazzman 15d ago
    Here's a thought for sweat shop owners: Air Conditioning. Problem solved. — Mitch Hedberg

by Arubis 15d ago

FactNotFeeling 15d ago

Any solutions to this issue that aren't unrealistic socialist pipe dreams?

darig 15d ago
[dead]
krapp 15d ago
Only realistic capitalist nightmares.
PostOnce 15d ago
You could've asked that about people saying we want 8 hour work days, sick leave, and safer work 100 years ago, and yet we got them.
- ungovernableCat 15d ago
  Those were fought for, with large strikes and sadly bloodshed and conflict. The pressing issue is that in the industrial revolution, capital needed labour so strikes are ineffective. How do people fight for their rights in a system that sees no need for them? Especially in one where power is concentrating and politics is frequently on sale to the highest bidder.
  - mitxela 14d ago
    In the margins, guerilla-style. A system having no need for me means it doesn't need to know I exist, or can be placated with fake data about me.
AngryData 15d ago
Why is socialism a pipe dream? Unions and co-ops aren't pipe dreams, and if we had nation wide unions or converted most businesses into co-ops, we would arguably be living under a socialist economy. If people had direct voting power over economic and business issues that would be socialism. Some methods are more realistic than others, but I don't see a requirement for any outlandish ideas.
somerandomqaguy 15d ago
Patent system? I know lot of folks on Hacker News hates patents but that was the whole point of them: the patent holder got exclusive rights to the invention for 20 years. But the trade off was that specific details about the invention, how it worked and how it's made were entered openly for anyone to look up. The patent holder would basically benefit it for the majority of his or her life but then after that it was permanently part of the public domain. AFAIK it was the reason why the patent system was invented, otherwise the best option jealous guarding of trade secrets that ideally (for the secret holder) died with them.
sien 15d ago
Yep. Muddling through with markets, democracy and welfare. Global life expectancy was 34 in 1913. Today it's 70. https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy Global GDP was less than 1Trn until about 1800. In 1950 it was 11.7Trn . Today it's 157 Trn. In a life time it's gone up by more than 10 fold. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-gdp-over-the-long-run https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-gdp-over-the-long-... People are living longer, richer lives all over the world. The world's largest country grew at 7.8% last year. https://www.reuters.com/world/india/why-indias-strong-gdp-growth-is-raising-eyebrows-2026-09-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/india/why-indias-strong-gdp-gr... Things are getting better. Look at the data, work at what you do and ignore the doom sayers.
- esafak 14d ago
  I don't doubt that AI might increase the GDP but it will happen at the expense of the many.
  - mitxela 14d ago
    GDP is just a measure of how expensive things are: inflation. It literally measures the total price of all the things that are bought and sold.
- mitxela 14d ago
  In 2060 it will be 34
antonvs 15d ago
It’s telling that you think treating people with respect and dignity is “socialist”. In a sane society it should be easy to argue against that claim, but looking around in the US at least, it turns out you’re correct: that doesn’t seem to be the norm under US-style capitalism. Luckily we have other countries to provide an example here.
dns_snek 14d ago
Yes. The first step could be a socialist system that preserves a market-based economy that avoids the horrors of private ownership of capital as well as the hubris of centrally managed economies. The primary goal should be democratic management of the means of production.

kouru225 15d ago

Might as well go tell depressed people to just stop being depressed

PorciiVorbesc 15d ago
Or homeless people to just buy a house.
- thejazzman 15d ago
  Here's a thought for sweat shop owners: Air Conditioning. Problem solved. — Mitch Hedberg