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For reasonably skilled people, it's often more just a matter of priority. A lot of people get wrapped up in pursuing compensation opportunities or prestige bra

For reasonably skilled people, it's often more just a matter of priority. A lot of people get wrapped up in pursuing compensation opportunities or prestige brands as their top priority, only to burn themselves out or wallow in a domain/culture that doesn't suit them, but if you're willing to deprioritize pay or dinner table cred, you often end up with a lot more flexibility on other work factors. And sometimes, flourishing in those better-fit environments pays off bigger in compensation and career growth in the end anyway. Granted, Fowler was able to do very well on more axes than many of us, but most competent mid- or late- career people have plenty more flexibility on worklife than they admit to themselves.

benashford 18d ago
In theory, yes. In practice, it only takes one or two bad hires and those trustworthy environments go bad surprisingly quickly.
- saulpw 18d ago
  I've had several jobs that were great for the first 12-18 months before the manager that hired me left. Then they sucked for another couple years but the pay didn't change.
  - DanielHB 17d ago
    I am seriously considering going into more lead/management role because of this, it is so demoralizing to feel I am doing work in a way I don't agree with. Never thought I would say the day, when I joined this career all I wanted was to work on interesting problems and not work more than 40 hours per week. These days the interesting problems are always solved in the worse ways possible and I am often swamped with work that I don't even have the time to do any improvements out of my personally-assigned backlog.
DanielHB 18d ago
I have been trying to find one of these "lower pay better conditions" places, but it is _such_ a gamble. It is so hard to tell how the work is going to be before you join. If I am almost certain to at least have a mild dislike for the work I might as well go for the place that pays better. Also in my experience lower pay places tend to eventually suck because they tend to get into financial difficulties much more easily.
- emerongi 18d ago
  It’s always best to just aim for highest compensation. Even if a team is your dream fit today, it can easily change. High compensation can also bring more freedom and happiness, since it’s more costly for your employer to replace you. It’s cheaper to keep an existing employee happy than to spend a lot of time and money to bring a new person on board. If your compensation is lower, it’s not as big of a factor. I wouldn’t take a job if it clearly doesn’t fit me at all, but within the band of “acceptable jobs” aiming for highest compensation is the way to go in my opinion.
  - cyberpunk 18d ago
    This comes with age, too. In my 20’s and early 30’s i wanted to work places where I felt this cultural and work fit since work was a bigger part of my life — but now I’m in my 40’s that shifted just want to get paid as much as possible and provide for my family. Don’t much care about who I work with, although I do draw the line at crypto, porn and harmful stuff.
    - ffsm8 18d ago
      Mmh, I really don't think your age has anything to do with that Your personal development surely did, but people of all ages ended up in that mindset, and there are countless anecdotes of people talking about the reverse... Both older and younger then you.
    - anal_reactor 17d ago
      > porn I would totally accept a job for a legit porn company. Regarding harmful stuff... "harmful" is such a broad definition, because it heavily depends on the culture. Having "volunteered for an LGBT organisation" on your resume would've killed your career not so long ago.
  - fellowniusmonk 18d ago
    The unknowns are so high going to any job, current state unknowns, future state unknowns. Higher compensation is the only proxy we have for importance and leverage, always chose higher leverage over lower leverage unless burnout is a possibility. Just make sure that if you aren't born into wealth and status you know how to code switch into it, lie if you need to, as long as people think you are from the wealth class they won't begrudge negotiations around compensation.

benashford 18d ago

In theory, yes. In practice, it only takes one or two bad hires and those trustworthy environments go bad surprisingly quickly.

saulpw 18d ago
I've had several jobs that were great for the first 12-18 months before the manager that hired me left. Then they sucked for another couple years but the pay didn't change.
- DanielHB 17d ago
  I am seriously considering going into more lead/management role because of this, it is so demoralizing to feel I am doing work in a way I don't agree with. Never thought I would say the day, when I joined this career all I wanted was to work on interesting problems and not work more than 40 hours per week. These days the interesting problems are always solved in the worse ways possible and I am often swamped with work that I don't even have the time to do any improvements out of my personally-assigned backlog.

DanielHB 18d ago

I have been trying to find one of these "lower pay better conditions" places, but it is _such_ a gamble. It is so hard to tell how the work is going to be before you join. If I am almost certain to at least have a mild dislike for the work I might as well go for the place that pays better. Also in my experience lower pay places tend to eventually suck because they tend to get into financial difficulties much more easily.

emerongi 18d ago
It’s always best to just aim for highest compensation. Even if a team is your dream fit today, it can easily change. High compensation can also bring more freedom and happiness, since it’s more costly for your employer to replace you. It’s cheaper to keep an existing employee happy than to spend a lot of time and money to bring a new person on board. If your compensation is lower, it’s not as big of a factor. I wouldn’t take a job if it clearly doesn’t fit me at all, but within the band of “acceptable jobs” aiming for highest compensation is the way to go in my opinion.
- cyberpunk 18d ago
  This comes with age, too. In my 20’s and early 30’s i wanted to work places where I felt this cultural and work fit since work was a bigger part of my life — but now I’m in my 40’s that shifted just want to get paid as much as possible and provide for my family. Don’t much care about who I work with, although I do draw the line at crypto, porn and harmful stuff.
  - ffsm8 18d ago
    Mmh, I really don't think your age has anything to do with that Your personal development surely did, but people of all ages ended up in that mindset, and there are countless anecdotes of people talking about the reverse... Both older and younger then you.
  - anal_reactor 17d ago
    > porn I would totally accept a job for a legit porn company. Regarding harmful stuff... "harmful" is such a broad definition, because it heavily depends on the culture. Having "volunteered for an LGBT organisation" on your resume would've killed your career not so long ago.
- fellowniusmonk 18d ago
  The unknowns are so high going to any job, current state unknowns, future state unknowns. Higher compensation is the only proxy we have for importance and leverage, always chose higher leverage over lower leverage unless burnout is a possibility. Just make sure that if you aren't born into wealth and status you know how to code switch into it, lie if you need to, as long as people think you are from the wealth class they won't begrudge negotiations around compensation.