4 ms·

Brogrammers are in it for the love of money. Programmers are in it for the love of programming.

hectdev 9d ago
what if you're in it for both? I like solving puzzles and want to extract the maximum amount I am due for making a company profits.
- rexpop 9d ago
  Good, then you're not a scab!
Legend2440 9d ago
I can count on one hand how many people I've met that are into programming for the love of it. For most people it's a job, and that's ok.
- nicoburns 9d ago
  > I can count on one hand how many people I've met that are into programming for the love of it That's surprising to me. It's been a majority of people I've worked with. I guess perhaps it depends heavily on where you work.
  - Legend2440 9d ago
    Maybe? Dev job at a non-tech F500 company. All these guys have kids and houses in the suburbs.
    - nicoburns 9d ago
      I'd guess it makes sense that if programming is a passion for you then probably a non-tech-centric F500 company probably isn't where you'd choose to work. For context: my current company with ~400 employees (not just engineering) is the largest company I've ever worked at.
    - plorkyeran 9d ago
      To the best of my knowledge zero of the people passionate about programming that I know have spent a meaningful portion of their career at non-tech companies. Internships or first jobs out of college are common, but the passionate people end up going somewhere where the thing they're working on is more than an incidental cost center for their employer.
      - deleted 9d ago
        [deleted]
- spike021 9d ago
  even people I know who are supposedly in it for the love of programming inevitably care about the amount of money.
- BeetleB 9d ago
  I don't have enough fingers. We hang out in different crowds.
- zdragnar 9d ago
  Hello! I hope you have an extra finger, because now you've met another. The money certainly doesn't hurt, but I love what I do.
- esseph 9d ago
  > I can count on one hand how many people I've met that are into programming for the love of it. You may need to find a place with a better culture.
- swatcoder 9d ago
  Sure, and that's a big shift in industry culture over the last several decades. While there had long been perfuctory white collar programmer analysts filling the ranks at some dry divisions at IBM, it used to be way more common to have a software engineering department full of Asimov-steeped Omni-reading nerds who had genuinely passionate interest in the field that had taken hold even before they started working in it. But later the career increasingly came to be treated more like law, medicine, or finance and you started to see those rooms fill with people that were often generally bright but not really "called" to the field in the same aay.
- thepasswordis 9d ago
  What sorts of places do you hang out in, or how old are you? People who did programming for the love of programming was extremely common in the sortof hacker subculture that existed from 1990-2010is or so.
- acheron 9d ago
  I mean I got into it because I loved it as a kid in the 80s and 90s. And I still loved it in college. Turning it into a job quickly crushed any love I had though.
- _superposition_ 9d ago
  I wonder if carpenters, plumbers and electricians, etc have the same kind of love for their jobs in comparable ratios. I certainly don't ask when I hire one.
  - esseph 9d ago
    They're making crud apps
Invictus0 9d ago
normal guy that wants to provide for his family: bro autistic guy that rejects your PRs because you used tabs instead of spaces: pro
- hectdev 9d ago
  I worked for twitter and there was a guy like this. I made a big stink that "yo, everything this guy says just needs to be in a linter" and they actually implemented it.
- lukevp 9d ago
  If you don’t have style rules baked into the PR process, you should. Tabs vs. spaces is a team decision and needs to be matched by everyone to reduce code churn. It’s correct to reject a PR if it violates the team style guide (although it should be automated and have tooling locally to enforce it as well.)
  - Invictus0 9d ago
    the only thing that matters is making money fast. everything else DOES NOT MATTER, and ESPECIALLY not the invisible characters between the words.
- rexpop 9d ago
  On the contrary, the pro is likely to prefer tabs—you can adjust the display-width for better ergonomics.
- deleted 9d ago
  [deleted]
SkyeCA 9d ago
Love doesn't pay the bills and this industry will kill any love a normal person has for programming.
roncesvalles 9d ago
The distinction is even easier to make these days -- brogrammers aren't actually programmers. There is an emerging coterie of people whose entire approach to software startups is to vibecode an MVP, raise enough seed to hire a real programmer (or get one interested enough to become their "cofounder") and move on to the next MVP. To them, doing one company at a time in the era of LLMs is a sucker's game.
_superposition_ 9d ago
I fell into this career because I programmed as a kid, hacked on pre internet bboards, and understood how to drive a computer via the command line. I like solving the problems. GED, college dropout. I never planned on making this much money, but I'm certainly not giving it up. I don't feel like I fit in either camp tbh.

what if you're in it for both? I like solving puzzles and want to extract the maximum amount I am due for making a company profits.

rexpop 9d ago
Good, then you're not a scab!

Legend2440 9d ago

I can count on one hand how many people I've met that are into programming for the love of it. For most people it's a job, and that's ok.

nicoburns 9d ago
> I can count on one hand how many people I've met that are into programming for the love of it That's surprising to me. It's been a majority of people I've worked with. I guess perhaps it depends heavily on where you work.
- Legend2440 9d ago
  Maybe? Dev job at a non-tech F500 company. All these guys have kids and houses in the suburbs.
  - nicoburns 9d ago
    I'd guess it makes sense that if programming is a passion for you then probably a non-tech-centric F500 company probably isn't where you'd choose to work. For context: my current company with ~400 employees (not just engineering) is the largest company I've ever worked at.
  - plorkyeran 9d ago
    To the best of my knowledge zero of the people passionate about programming that I know have spent a meaningful portion of their career at non-tech companies. Internships or first jobs out of college are common, but the passionate people end up going somewhere where the thing they're working on is more than an incidental cost center for their employer.
    - deleted 9d ago
      [deleted]
spike021 9d ago
even people I know who are supposedly in it for the love of programming inevitably care about the amount of money.
BeetleB 9d ago
I don't have enough fingers. We hang out in different crowds.
zdragnar 9d ago
Hello! I hope you have an extra finger, because now you've met another. The money certainly doesn't hurt, but I love what I do.
esseph 9d ago
> I can count on one hand how many people I've met that are into programming for the love of it. You may need to find a place with a better culture.
swatcoder 9d ago
Sure, and that's a big shift in industry culture over the last several decades. While there had long been perfuctory white collar programmer analysts filling the ranks at some dry divisions at IBM, it used to be way more common to have a software engineering department full of Asimov-steeped Omni-reading nerds who had genuinely passionate interest in the field that had taken hold even before they started working in it. But later the career increasingly came to be treated more like law, medicine, or finance and you started to see those rooms fill with people that were often generally bright but not really "called" to the field in the same aay.
thepasswordis 9d ago
What sorts of places do you hang out in, or how old are you? People who did programming for the love of programming was extremely common in the sortof hacker subculture that existed from 1990-2010is or so.
acheron 9d ago
I mean I got into it because I loved it as a kid in the 80s and 90s. And I still loved it in college. Turning it into a job quickly crushed any love I had though.
_superposition_ 9d ago
I wonder if carpenters, plumbers and electricians, etc have the same kind of love for their jobs in comparable ratios. I certainly don't ask when I hire one.
- esseph 9d ago
  They're making crud apps

Invictus0 9d ago

normal guy that wants to provide for his family: bro autistic guy that rejects your PRs because you used tabs instead of spaces: pro

hectdev 9d ago
I worked for twitter and there was a guy like this. I made a big stink that "yo, everything this guy says just needs to be in a linter" and they actually implemented it.
lukevp 9d ago
If you don’t have style rules baked into the PR process, you should. Tabs vs. spaces is a team decision and needs to be matched by everyone to reduce code churn. It’s correct to reject a PR if it violates the team style guide (although it should be automated and have tooling locally to enforce it as well.)
- Invictus0 9d ago
  the only thing that matters is making money fast. everything else DOES NOT MATTER, and ESPECIALLY not the invisible characters between the words.
rexpop 9d ago
On the contrary, the pro is likely to prefer tabs—you can adjust the display-width for better ergonomics.
deleted 9d ago
[deleted]

SkyeCA 9d ago

Love doesn't pay the bills and this industry will kill any love a normal person has for programming.

roncesvalles 9d ago

The distinction is even easier to make these days -- brogrammers aren't actually programmers. There is an emerging coterie of people whose entire approach to software startups is to vibecode an MVP, raise enough seed to hire a real programmer (or get one interested enough to become their "cofounder") and move on to the next MVP. To them, doing one company at a time in the era of LLMs is a sucker's game.

_superposition_ 9d ago

I fell into this career because I programmed as a kid, hacked on pre internet bboards, and understood how to drive a computer via the command line. I like solving the problems. GED, college dropout. I never planned on making this much money, but I'm certainly not giving it up. I don't feel like I fit in either camp tbh.