6 ms·

South Africa is at risk of becoming a mafia state

69 points by andsoitis 20d ago

deleted 20d ago
[deleted]
whoarewethen 20d ago
[dead]
butterNaN 20d ago
https://archive.ph/1U5wB https://archive.ph/1U5wB
bsoqk 20d ago
[flagged]
- digitaltrees 20d ago
  This is quite an inflammatory comment that warrants more justification. Many countries have struggled with organized crime infiltration of government and have no connection to colonialism, and many colonies also had organized crime. You are implying at one that colonialism prevented this organized crime problem and would eliminate it and the harms of colonialism are lower than organized crime. Those might be defensible positions but you neither articulate them nor defend them.
pavel_lishin 20d ago
> We detected unusual activity from your device or network. > Reasons may include: > Rapid taps or clicks > JavaScript disabled or not working > Automated (bot) activity on your network (IP X.X.X.X) > Use of developer or inspection tools I mean, I guess. I'm using Firefox, I have an adblocker, and I have tampermonkey installed? And turning off Javascript isn't a bad idea, either.
- m132 20d ago
  And then you realize that, ironically, LLMs and archive.today, both actual bots, can scrape the site just fine. The latter also serving you the content with no paywalls, ads, JavaScript, permalinks that 404 after a year, and all the other anti-features. It's almost as if news websites looked at the pains one has to go through to legally play a video game in 2026 and all unanimously went "I want this!".
  - gamblor956 20d ago
    And then a few years later when the site shuts down because nobody was willing to pay for the content that it would still be around if you and others had just ponied up the cost of one morning latte each month.
    - m132 20d ago
      Well, sorry! Make the payment process and the website at least half as frictionless and private, and I'll be happy to pay!
    - pavel_lishin 20d ago
      I mean, I don't even have the option to pay - I can't access the site at all. And there is nothing anyone can say to talk me out of adblockers - ad networks are a delivery system for malware and fraud.
    - alyeska2 19d ago
      The linked site shows me two subscription options, $289/year or $29 every 4 weeks. Expensive latte. The economics of online new seem challenging. Bloomberg is $399/year. Wall Street Journal is $715/year. NY Times is $390/year. Washington Post $140/year. That's a couple thousand dollars a year, just to have a handful of mainstream news sites. Add in local or regional sites, or content focused on hobbies, niche interests, etc and a person is looking at a huge chunk of their income (keep in mind median individual income in USA is $40k) going to reading the news.
      - 19d ago
atemerev 20d ago
United States of America are at risk of becoming mafia state. Very obvious and very significant, with fewer and fewer possibilities of reversal remaining each day.
- rayiner 20d ago
  Americans and Western Europeans have no idea what it means to come from a country where the government can’t maintain a monopoly on violence, and when you say stuff like this it comes across as complaining about “first world problems.” What’s happening in South Africa is a phenomenon that happens around the third world. And it’s an enormous tax on half of the human population, even in relatively affluent countries like Mexico. Even in many of the countries that don’t suffer from internal destabilization by non-state actors, the solution has been dictators like Saddam Hussain in Iraq or El-Sisi in Egypt. It’s a subject that warrants thoughtful analysis and problem solving by people in the first world. We need you guys to think about how you overcame those problems so those lessons can be applied to countries that desperately need the help.
  - atemerev 20d ago
    As someone who was born in Russia and lived there in 1990s, I have quite a good idea of this arrangement. This was not mafia state yet. The mafia state is the modern Russia, where former organized crime groups became fully integrated into the government. Technically, the state retains the monopoly on violence. Practically, violence comes from influence of competing groups within the state. And yes, US is moving towards the same regime type. This is clearly visible to me, from my Russian experience, but I don't understand how to convey this to Americans.
    - cucumber3732842 20d ago
      > Practically, violence comes from influence of competing groups within the state. And yes, US is moving towards the same regime type The ideological and demographic makeup of certain internet communities makes them incapable of understanding what you mean by this.
deleted 20d ago
[deleted]
thijson 20d ago
The government itself is the biggest criminal enterprise. I guess they are worried about being eclipsed.
- pixelpoet 20d ago
  I grew up in South Africa, and there was this classic newspaper cartoon back in the day: a kid goes to his dad and says "Dad, I want to become a criminal!" and the dad asks, "Government or private sector?"
- hulitu 17d ago
  > The government itself is the biggest criminal enterprise This is true for all of the western world, eastern Europe and maybe true for some other countries.
pirate787 20d ago
[flagged]
- doormatt 20d ago
  For the 2024 tax year SARS expects about 9.2 million individual returns in total. https://www.sars.gov.za/wp-content/uploads/2025taxstats/2025-Tax-Statistics-PDF-.pdf https://www.sars.gov.za/wp-content/uploads/2025taxstats/2025...
chmod775 20d ago
"Burning spaceship falling into sun has clogged toilet" I'm not sure that particularly matters at this point?
Havoc 20d ago
While a lot of that is true, there is also a recent sharp uptick in better visibility on the problem. A bit like improving disease detection makes the rates shoot up. In particular the Madlanga commission mentioned in the article has been uncovering eyewatering levels of incompetence and corruption in law enforcement so there is suddenly a lot of talk around that That's not to dispute that the situation is bad and the trajectory is negative...but think the economist could have highlighted that context a bit better.
- pseudohadamard 19d ago
  I also don't think it's a mafia state like, say, Russia is. It's just devolved into being a typical African country. Many years ago a South African friend of mine said "South Africa will end up like Zimbabwe, only it'll take a lot longer because it's got a lot further to fall". I haven't seen any sign of that not being the case. It's also probably the first country ever to regress from first world back to more-or-less third world. Just look at things like SAA and Eskom for examples of what two decades of corruption and nepotism and theft can do to a formerly outstanding enterprise, and then spread that out across everything else.
tibbydudeza 19d ago
We have a vigilant free press reporting on scandals and a court system which holds the govt fully accountable. I see far more corruption evident in the US right now with Trump and his family and their crypto investments and dodgy govt deals - perhaps the Economist should do an article. People being pardoned by paying for it.
hulitu 18d ago
So like US or Ukraine ?

69 points by andsoitis 20d ago

deleted 20d ago

[deleted]

whoarewethen 20d ago

[dead]

butterNaN 20d ago

https://archive.ph/1U5wB https://archive.ph/1U5wB

bsoqk 20d ago

[flagged]

digitaltrees 20d ago
This is quite an inflammatory comment that warrants more justification. Many countries have struggled with organized crime infiltration of government and have no connection to colonialism, and many colonies also had organized crime. You are implying at one that colonialism prevented this organized crime problem and would eliminate it and the harms of colonialism are lower than organized crime. Those might be defensible positions but you neither articulate them nor defend them.

pavel_lishin 20d ago

> We detected unusual activity from your device or network. > Reasons may include: > Rapid taps or clicks > JavaScript disabled or not working > Automated (bot) activity on your network (IP X.X.X.X) > Use of developer or inspection tools I mean, I guess. I'm using Firefox, I have an adblocker, and I have tampermonkey installed? And turning off Javascript isn't a bad idea, either.

m132 20d ago
And then you realize that, ironically, LLMs and archive.today, both actual bots, can scrape the site just fine. The latter also serving you the content with no paywalls, ads, JavaScript, permalinks that 404 after a year, and all the other anti-features. It's almost as if news websites looked at the pains one has to go through to legally play a video game in 2026 and all unanimously went "I want this!".
- gamblor956 20d ago
  And then a few years later when the site shuts down because nobody was willing to pay for the content that it would still be around if you and others had just ponied up the cost of one morning latte each month.
  - m132 20d ago
    Well, sorry! Make the payment process and the website at least half as frictionless and private, and I'll be happy to pay!
  - pavel_lishin 20d ago
    I mean, I don't even have the option to pay - I can't access the site at all. And there is nothing anyone can say to talk me out of adblockers - ad networks are a delivery system for malware and fraud.
  - alyeska2 19d ago
    The linked site shows me two subscription options, $289/year or $29 every 4 weeks. Expensive latte. The economics of online new seem challenging. Bloomberg is $399/year. Wall Street Journal is $715/year. NY Times is $390/year. Washington Post $140/year. That's a couple thousand dollars a year, just to have a handful of mainstream news sites. Add in local or regional sites, or content focused on hobbies, niche interests, etc and a person is looking at a huge chunk of their income (keep in mind median individual income in USA is $40k) going to reading the news.
    - 19d ago

atemerev 20d ago

United States of America are at risk of becoming mafia state. Very obvious and very significant, with fewer and fewer possibilities of reversal remaining each day.

rayiner 20d ago
Americans and Western Europeans have no idea what it means to come from a country where the government can’t maintain a monopoly on violence, and when you say stuff like this it comes across as complaining about “first world problems.” What’s happening in South Africa is a phenomenon that happens around the third world. And it’s an enormous tax on half of the human population, even in relatively affluent countries like Mexico. Even in many of the countries that don’t suffer from internal destabilization by non-state actors, the solution has been dictators like Saddam Hussain in Iraq or El-Sisi in Egypt. It’s a subject that warrants thoughtful analysis and problem solving by people in the first world. We need you guys to think about how you overcame those problems so those lessons can be applied to countries that desperately need the help.
- atemerev 20d ago
  As someone who was born in Russia and lived there in 1990s, I have quite a good idea of this arrangement. This was not mafia state yet. The mafia state is the modern Russia, where former organized crime groups became fully integrated into the government. Technically, the state retains the monopoly on violence. Practically, violence comes from influence of competing groups within the state. And yes, US is moving towards the same regime type. This is clearly visible to me, from my Russian experience, but I don't understand how to convey this to Americans.
  - cucumber3732842 20d ago
    > Practically, violence comes from influence of competing groups within the state. And yes, US is moving towards the same regime type The ideological and demographic makeup of certain internet communities makes them incapable of understanding what you mean by this.

deleted 20d ago

[deleted]

thijson 20d ago

The government itself is the biggest criminal enterprise. I guess they are worried about being eclipsed.

pixelpoet 20d ago
I grew up in South Africa, and there was this classic newspaper cartoon back in the day: a kid goes to his dad and says "Dad, I want to become a criminal!" and the dad asks, "Government or private sector?"
hulitu 17d ago
> The government itself is the biggest criminal enterprise This is true for all of the western world, eastern Europe and maybe true for some other countries.

pirate787 20d ago

[flagged]

doormatt 20d ago
For the 2024 tax year SARS expects about 9.2 million individual returns in total. https://www.sars.gov.za/wp-content/uploads/2025taxstats/2025-Tax-Statistics-PDF-.pdf https://www.sars.gov.za/wp-content/uploads/2025taxstats/2025...

chmod775 20d ago

"Burning spaceship falling into sun has clogged toilet" I'm not sure that particularly matters at this point?

Havoc 20d ago

While a lot of that is true, there is also a recent sharp uptick in better visibility on the problem. A bit like improving disease detection makes the rates shoot up. In particular the Madlanga commission mentioned in the article has been uncovering eyewatering levels of incompetence and corruption in law enforcement so there is suddenly a lot of talk around that That's not to dispute that the situation is bad and the trajectory is negative...but think the economist could have highlighted that context a bit better.

pseudohadamard 19d ago
I also don't think it's a mafia state like, say, Russia is. It's just devolved into being a typical African country. Many years ago a South African friend of mine said "South Africa will end up like Zimbabwe, only it'll take a lot longer because it's got a lot further to fall". I haven't seen any sign of that not being the case. It's also probably the first country ever to regress from first world back to more-or-less third world. Just look at things like SAA and Eskom for examples of what two decades of corruption and nepotism and theft can do to a formerly outstanding enterprise, and then spread that out across everything else.

tibbydudeza 19d ago

We have a vigilant free press reporting on scandals and a court system which holds the govt fully accountable. I see far more corruption evident in the US right now with Trump and his family and their crypto investments and dodgy govt deals - perhaps the Economist should do an article. People being pardoned by paying for it.

hulitu 18d ago

So like US or Ukraine ?