4 ms·

Too bad there’s such a lingering culture of Windows and creaky Lenovos and Dells around it. I’m sure it can be different, but I’m not taking my chances ever aga

Too bad there’s such a lingering culture of Windows and creaky Lenovos and Dells around it. I’m sure it can be different, but I’m not taking my chances ever again. Simply not worth my sanity.

GiorgioG 9d ago
[flagged]
- tomhow 9d ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly posting abusive comments and ignoring our appeals to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you can email us and demonstrate an intention to observe the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - GiorgioG 9d ago
    [dead]
littlecranky67 9d ago
Not sure when your last foray into the .NET ecosystem was, but every since it is xplat and unified (.NET 5 probably) it is a real joy. I use VSCode as IDE for C# on my mac, and deploy to Linux.
- atraac 9d ago
  He didn't say you can't use Linux or MacOS, he said there's still a culture of being Windows and Microsoft only across .NET shops. As an ex .NET dev I can confirm, the community is quite close minded, language is awesome.
  - IneffablePigeon 9d ago
    I think it's changing a lot recently. Our eng team of ~150 has been fully macos for several years now and we've deployed to Linux for ten.
    - DANmode 9d ago
      This. The community is being diluted by…a different demographic!
      - intrasight 9d ago
        Including the internal Microsoft community
    - mpawelski 9d ago
      do you mind sharing the company name?
  - masfoobar 9d ago
    > As an ex .NET dev Just curious.. what language(s) are you using now?
    - atraac 9d ago
      I landed in a web3 Node, Typescript startup so... Not great. But it allowed me to see an entirely different world so I can't complain.
  - smt88 9d ago
    Why do I care if other shops are Windows-only? The language and ecosystem are phenomenal and Linux support is first-class.
- farlight 9d ago
  I've been using .NET almost exclusively on Linux since it was called .NET Core 2.0, and development platforms other than Windows do feel like second class citizens. Any time you venture into anything remotely advanced, the tooling is usually Windows only. "Everything" expects you to use MSSQL, even if today there's ok official support for PostgreSQL and SQLite. Most "thought leaders" of various sorts are on Windows and expect you to use it. This pervades throughout the ecosystem. Can't see this ever changing as it's not in MS' interest to turn other operating systems into good .NET development platforms.
  - aksss 9d ago
    I'm sure you know more about this than me, but EF works fine with SQLite for a project I work on. There are limitations, but I think there's a difference between the idea of EF deliberately not implementing some features for SQLite and SQLite itself not having support for some EF features (which is the reality I'm familiar with). SQL Server is the flagship database project on the Microsoft side and that team surely has some imperative to facilitate the EF vision. It simply must be less of a priority for the PostgreSQL and SQLite maintainers to do so. Is that really a valid dig on the .net ecosystem, though?
    - moron4hire 9d ago
      Incidentally, I'm seriously considering dropping EF. The ability to apply migrations is nice. I find the means of authoring them to be arcane and capricious. Not having to write every simple query is nice, but it gets really hard to do complex or high performance stuff. After a decade of using this thing, I find myself fighting the Entity tracker more and more and now I'm seriously questioning if it's really all worth it.
      - intrasight 9d ago
        I use EF now - but only for the string interpolation in Database.SqlQuery and Database.ExecuteSql. We don't use POCOs but instead use XML and JSON with Linq.
ctenb 9d ago
That is not my experience. Sure, the background of .NET is windows, but in the last decade or so it opened up to other platforms, and so many shops prefer deploying their .NET based applications to linux for multitude of reasons. Along with this comes linux oriented culture. So windows culture is not tied to .NET per se, more so tied to certain shops I would say. Speaking from anecdotal experience, I have no numbers on this :)
osigurdson 9d ago
Obviously, don't use it if you don't want to and don't have to. It is not worse than Go or Java however which is its only meaningful competition.
osigurdson 9d ago
Note that Linux often runs on Lenovos and Dells, some of which may be creaky. I guess you are saying you prefer macOS.
paulirwin 9d ago
It is different. I do nearly 100% of my .NET development on macOS, only dropping into Windows to support .NET Framework users of open-source projects I work on, and we deploy exclusively now on Linux containers. The apps I maintain haven't touched a Windows server in years. My colleagues (and OSS co-maintainers) use a mix of macOS, Windows, and Linux. I use Rider instead of Visual Studio. The only time I've been forced into a "culture of Windows and creaky Lenovos and Dells" recently was on a Java project. (Anecdotally, of course. Java has a similarly cross-platform culture as a whole.)
replwoacause 9d ago
I do .NET dev exclusively on a mac completely within Visual Studio Code and it's by far the easiest and most enjoyable framework and ecosystem I've had the pleasure of working in. I couldn't be happier with it.
- Fervicus 8d ago
  Have you tried Rider?

Too bad there’s such a lingering culture of Windows and creaky Lenovos and Dells around it. I’m sure it can be different, but I’m not taking my chances ever again. Simply not worth my sanity.

GiorgioG 9d ago

[flagged]

tomhow 9d ago
We've banned this account for repeatedly posting abusive comments and ignoring our appeals to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you can email us and demonstrate an intention to observe the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- GiorgioG 9d ago
  [dead]

littlecranky67 9d ago

Not sure when your last foray into the .NET ecosystem was, but every since it is xplat and unified (.NET 5 probably) it is a real joy. I use VSCode as IDE for C# on my mac, and deploy to Linux.

atraac 9d ago
He didn't say you can't use Linux or MacOS, he said there's still a culture of being Windows and Microsoft only across .NET shops. As an ex .NET dev I can confirm, the community is quite close minded, language is awesome.
- IneffablePigeon 9d ago
  I think it's changing a lot recently. Our eng team of ~150 has been fully macos for several years now and we've deployed to Linux for ten.
  - DANmode 9d ago
    This. The community is being diluted by…a different demographic!
    - intrasight 9d ago
      Including the internal Microsoft community
  - mpawelski 9d ago
    do you mind sharing the company name?
- masfoobar 9d ago
  > As an ex .NET dev Just curious.. what language(s) are you using now?
  - atraac 9d ago
    I landed in a web3 Node, Typescript startup so... Not great. But it allowed me to see an entirely different world so I can't complain.
- smt88 9d ago
  Why do I care if other shops are Windows-only? The language and ecosystem are phenomenal and Linux support is first-class.
farlight 9d ago
I've been using .NET almost exclusively on Linux since it was called .NET Core 2.0, and development platforms other than Windows do feel like second class citizens. Any time you venture into anything remotely advanced, the tooling is usually Windows only. "Everything" expects you to use MSSQL, even if today there's ok official support for PostgreSQL and SQLite. Most "thought leaders" of various sorts are on Windows and expect you to use it. This pervades throughout the ecosystem. Can't see this ever changing as it's not in MS' interest to turn other operating systems into good .NET development platforms.
- aksss 9d ago
  I'm sure you know more about this than me, but EF works fine with SQLite for a project I work on. There are limitations, but I think there's a difference between the idea of EF deliberately not implementing some features for SQLite and SQLite itself not having support for some EF features (which is the reality I'm familiar with). SQL Server is the flagship database project on the Microsoft side and that team surely has some imperative to facilitate the EF vision. It simply must be less of a priority for the PostgreSQL and SQLite maintainers to do so. Is that really a valid dig on the .net ecosystem, though?
  - moron4hire 9d ago
    Incidentally, I'm seriously considering dropping EF. The ability to apply migrations is nice. I find the means of authoring them to be arcane and capricious. Not having to write every simple query is nice, but it gets really hard to do complex or high performance stuff. After a decade of using this thing, I find myself fighting the Entity tracker more and more and now I'm seriously questioning if it's really all worth it.
    - intrasight 9d ago
      I use EF now - but only for the string interpolation in Database.SqlQuery and Database.ExecuteSql. We don't use POCOs but instead use XML and JSON with Linq.

ctenb 9d ago

That is not my experience. Sure, the background of .NET is windows, but in the last decade or so it opened up to other platforms, and so many shops prefer deploying their .NET based applications to linux for multitude of reasons. Along with this comes linux oriented culture. So windows culture is not tied to .NET per se, more so tied to certain shops I would say. Speaking from anecdotal experience, I have no numbers on this :)

osigurdson 9d ago

Obviously, don't use it if you don't want to and don't have to. It is not worse than Go or Java however which is its only meaningful competition.

osigurdson 9d ago

Note that Linux often runs on Lenovos and Dells, some of which may be creaky. I guess you are saying you prefer macOS.

paulirwin 9d ago

It is different. I do nearly 100% of my .NET development on macOS, only dropping into Windows to support .NET Framework users of open-source projects I work on, and we deploy exclusively now on Linux containers. The apps I maintain haven't touched a Windows server in years. My colleagues (and OSS co-maintainers) use a mix of macOS, Windows, and Linux. I use Rider instead of Visual Studio. The only time I've been forced into a "culture of Windows and creaky Lenovos and Dells" recently was on a Java project. (Anecdotally, of course. Java has a similarly cross-platform culture as a whole.)

replwoacause 9d ago

I do .NET dev exclusively on a mac completely within Visual Studio Code and it's by far the easiest and most enjoyable framework and ecosystem I've had the pleasure of working in. I couldn't be happier with it.

Fervicus 8d ago
Have you tried Rider?