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> Frontier intelligence is extremely powerful; the distillation I did off Astra trajectories is proof enough that large models are not going anywhere Wouldn't

by devsda 16d ago

> Frontier intelligence is extremely powerful; the distillation I did off Astra trajectories is proof enough that large models are not going anywhere Wouldn't admitting this invite trouble due to accusations of distillation flying around between closed and open models.

Onavo 16d ago
I don't think anybody's denying that small models are doing distillation, the issue at hand is frontier lab vs frontier lab when it comes to big models.
make3 16d ago
Frontier model trainers stole almost all the data they've trained on (the whole internet, all copyrighted). It's very hard for them to claim the moral high ground here. It's like stealing an apple from the British Colonial Empire.
- p1necone 16d ago
  Having the moral high ground matters less than having a big warchest of money to spend on lawyers.
  - kelvinjps10 16d ago
    Does it matter if they companies doing are not in the jurisdiction or even if they are, maybe the can't prove it?
    - Muromec 16d ago
      They can't prove it but can force you to spend time and money to disprove it.
      - esafak 16d ago
        The only thing they're going to try to do is ban Chinese models, and that's not going to fly outside the US, so Americans are going be the only losers.
        Muromec 16d ago
        Don't see the problem here actually.
- justonenote 16d ago
  You'd be shocked at some of the punishments handed out from various empires over history for offences as minor as stealing an apple. Whether they can claim the moral high ground is not question of ethics but a question of power.
sick_of_slop 16d ago
[dead]
deleted 16d ago
[deleted]
pyaamb 16d ago
On the flip side, its important to know just how much we would be sacrificing if big frontier gets their way in convincing the courts that distillation is a bad thing
globalnode 16d ago
Yeah don't steal my stolen stuff.
- abirch 16d ago
  Like this scene from Pirates of Silicon Valley between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBri-xgYvHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBri-xgYvHQ Bill was saying that Steve was stealing from Xerox so it's okay if Bill stole from Xerox first.

by devsda 16d ago

Onavo 16d ago

I don't think anybody's denying that small models are doing distillation, the issue at hand is frontier lab vs frontier lab when it comes to big models.

make3 16d ago

Frontier model trainers stole almost all the data they've trained on (the whole internet, all copyrighted). It's very hard for them to claim the moral high ground here. It's like stealing an apple from the British Colonial Empire.

p1necone 16d ago
Having the moral high ground matters less than having a big warchest of money to spend on lawyers.
- kelvinjps10 16d ago
  Does it matter if they companies doing are not in the jurisdiction or even if they are, maybe the can't prove it?
  - Muromec 16d ago
    They can't prove it but can force you to spend time and money to disprove it.
    - esafak 16d ago
      The only thing they're going to try to do is ban Chinese models, and that's not going to fly outside the US, so Americans are going be the only losers.
      - Muromec 16d ago
        Don't see the problem here actually.
justonenote 16d ago
You'd be shocked at some of the punishments handed out from various empires over history for offences as minor as stealing an apple. Whether they can claim the moral high ground is not question of ethics but a question of power.

sick_of_slop 16d ago

[dead]

deleted 16d ago

[deleted]

pyaamb 16d ago

On the flip side, its important to know just how much we would be sacrificing if big frontier gets their way in convincing the courts that distillation is a bad thing

globalnode 16d ago

Yeah don't steal my stolen stuff.

abirch 16d ago
Like this scene from Pirates of Silicon Valley between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBri-xgYvHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBri-xgYvHQ Bill was saying that Steve was stealing from Xerox so it's okay if Bill stole from Xerox first.