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This isn’t really about AI, it’s about a culture where threats and coercion in service of one’s own ideology have become normalised.

sleepybrett 19d ago
No it's about people thinking that I should care about their business when they clearly do not. When you use AI in these lazy ways it's clear that you just don't care.
- Chance-Device 19d ago
  That doesn’t even make sense. If you’re a customer before she puts up the sign it hasn’t magically made the coffee or the service worse. You want to force her to act the way you want, it’s that simple.
  - tavavex 18d ago
    It does make sense. Customers have always judged businesses on factors besides their direct output. If the coffee shop's customer base has a significant amount of artists and artists do not like AI aesthetic or are upset by seeing AI output getting into places they once frequented, they have every right to stop patronizing the business and tell their friends, even if the coffee is the same. Honestly this entire "businesses can't be criticized" theme of this comment section is ridiculous. So what, if a small business started draping themselves in Russian flags and painting Zs on their windows, would I also be panned as an insane culture warrior on HN because I'm "forcing my opinions on them" by refusing to be a customer of that business, even if I went there before the change?
- AlexandrB 19d ago
  Dude, small business owners only have so much to spend on marketing. Before it was AI, it was stock images or Microsoft clip art. I don't care that my plumber has bad logo, it saving money on a logo keeps him from selling to PE and enshittifying his business.
  - sleepybrett 18d ago
    Then they can bust out some chalk and write a menu. Honestly, it's not rocket science, it does not require AI.
- gitaarik 18d ago
  This comment is a great example of what the parent is describing
jplusequalt 19d ago
>This isn’t really about AI, it’s about a culture where threats and coercion in service of one’s own ideology have become normalised This has always been a thing.
- Chance-Device 19d ago
  I think you’re right actually. It has always been a thing, but I think maybe we were better at suppressing it in the past. It seems like this sort of open, grassroots warfare is new.
  - doom2 19d ago
    It doesn't help when the US President not only openly encourages it but also officially forgives people perpetrating it on his behalf. What should we expect when it's coming from the top?
    - Chance-Device 19d ago
      The two sides are more similar than you give them credit for.
tomjen3 19d ago
Thats true. This story makes me think artists are spoiled and entitled little shits, which isn’t fair to all of them of cause.
- Chance-Device 19d ago
  I don’t think it’s the artists who are doing things like this. It’s usually people who aren’t directly impacted and are “working” on other people’s behalf who do this sort of thing. I suspect it’s power-seeking personalities using a socially acceptable excuse to exercise power over someone else.
nrmitchi 19d ago
From a more... pessimistic/optomistic point of view (I'm really not sure which applies here, it depends how you look at it) It is also about a culture with absolutely no safety net, where AI and increased automation moving into someones field (in this case, graphic design work) isn't just "oh, less people will need my services" and more "My income will completely disappear and I will be broke/homeless faster than I can possibly learn something else fast enough to compete with the omnipotent AI". The way to make these transitions less aggressive on everyone is to not have it tied directly to whether or not someone can afford to eat.
- Chance-Device 19d ago
  I think that’s letting people off the hook too easily. This sort of mob behaviour is simply normal. Normal means something that happens often, not something we find admirable. With a safety net it would be the same sort of thing - people decide that x is bad and dogpile it to get their dopamine. Some people really like the dogpiling, others like it less, but it calls to an ugly part of our psychology.
  - nrmitchi 19d ago
    I agree that people like the dogpile, but those dog-piles are normally starts by someone who feels like they are personally victimized and threatened by whatever action they are objecting to. People take things very personally when their core livelihood and ability to support themselves are threatened.
Yizahi 19d ago
Except that corporations are not people (well, except one place). A power imbalance between corporations and humans is enough to justify a lot of non-violent behavior which may be considered non-ethical to fellow people, but totally fine towards a corpo. Boycott is one of such traditional ways. Btw. notice how boycott is often perceived as ok to good, while "cancel culture" as bad, while both are identical if the target is corporation. Imo, artists boycotting any corporation for any reason at all, even if the Ouija board told them so, are completely justified.
scarecrowbob 19d ago
I love this, what a pleasant take./ I dislike AI because it represents the state's power to automatically surveil mass populations and automate everything from labor it's use of force in warfare. Please, do go on about how the folks who find the aesthetic around that repugnant in a way that hand-drawn-chalkboards are the "real threat".

sleepybrett 19d ago

No it's about people thinking that I should care about their business when they clearly do not. When you use AI in these lazy ways it's clear that you just don't care.

Chance-Device 19d ago
That doesn’t even make sense. If you’re a customer before she puts up the sign it hasn’t magically made the coffee or the service worse. You want to force her to act the way you want, it’s that simple.
- tavavex 18d ago
  It does make sense. Customers have always judged businesses on factors besides their direct output. If the coffee shop's customer base has a significant amount of artists and artists do not like AI aesthetic or are upset by seeing AI output getting into places they once frequented, they have every right to stop patronizing the business and tell their friends, even if the coffee is the same. Honestly this entire "businesses can't be criticized" theme of this comment section is ridiculous. So what, if a small business started draping themselves in Russian flags and painting Zs on their windows, would I also be panned as an insane culture warrior on HN because I'm "forcing my opinions on them" by refusing to be a customer of that business, even if I went there before the change?
AlexandrB 19d ago
Dude, small business owners only have so much to spend on marketing. Before it was AI, it was stock images or Microsoft clip art. I don't care that my plumber has bad logo, it saving money on a logo keeps him from selling to PE and enshittifying his business.
- sleepybrett 18d ago
  Then they can bust out some chalk and write a menu. Honestly, it's not rocket science, it does not require AI.
gitaarik 18d ago
This comment is a great example of what the parent is describing

jplusequalt 19d ago

>This isn’t really about AI, it’s about a culture where threats and coercion in service of one’s own ideology have become normalised This has always been a thing.

Chance-Device 19d ago
I think you’re right actually. It has always been a thing, but I think maybe we were better at suppressing it in the past. It seems like this sort of open, grassroots warfare is new.
- doom2 19d ago
  It doesn't help when the US President not only openly encourages it but also officially forgives people perpetrating it on his behalf. What should we expect when it's coming from the top?
  - Chance-Device 19d ago
    The two sides are more similar than you give them credit for.

tomjen3 19d ago

Thats true. This story makes me think artists are spoiled and entitled little shits, which isn’t fair to all of them of cause.

Chance-Device 19d ago
I don’t think it’s the artists who are doing things like this. It’s usually people who aren’t directly impacted and are “working” on other people’s behalf who do this sort of thing. I suspect it’s power-seeking personalities using a socially acceptable excuse to exercise power over someone else.

nrmitchi 19d ago

From a more... pessimistic/optomistic point of view (I'm really not sure which applies here, it depends how you look at it) It is also about a culture with absolutely no safety net, where AI and increased automation moving into someones field (in this case, graphic design work) isn't just "oh, less people will need my services" and more "My income will completely disappear and I will be broke/homeless faster than I can possibly learn something else fast enough to compete with the omnipotent AI". The way to make these transitions less aggressive on everyone is to not have it tied directly to whether or not someone can afford to eat.

Chance-Device 19d ago
I think that’s letting people off the hook too easily. This sort of mob behaviour is simply normal. Normal means something that happens often, not something we find admirable. With a safety net it would be the same sort of thing - people decide that x is bad and dogpile it to get their dopamine. Some people really like the dogpiling, others like it less, but it calls to an ugly part of our psychology.
- nrmitchi 19d ago
  I agree that people like the dogpile, but those dog-piles are normally starts by someone who feels like they are personally victimized and threatened by whatever action they are objecting to. People take things very personally when their core livelihood and ability to support themselves are threatened.

Yizahi 19d ago

Except that corporations are not people (well, except one place). A power imbalance between corporations and humans is enough to justify a lot of non-violent behavior which may be considered non-ethical to fellow people, but totally fine towards a corpo. Boycott is one of such traditional ways. Btw. notice how boycott is often perceived as ok to good, while "cancel culture" as bad, while both are identical if the target is corporation. Imo, artists boycotting any corporation for any reason at all, even if the Ouija board told them so, are completely justified.

scarecrowbob 19d ago

I love this, what a pleasant take./ I dislike AI because it represents the state's power to automatically surveil mass populations and automate everything from labor it's use of force in warfare. Please, do go on about how the folks who find the aesthetic around that repugnant in a way that hand-drawn-chalkboards are the "real threat".