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Congratulations. You got lucky, and got a great trainer. The sad reality is this is the exception. I take my office gym for example - I don't go there, but a co

by Swannie 14y ago

Congratulations. You got lucky, and got a great trainer. The sad reality is this is the exception. I take my office gym for example - I don't go there, but a colleague does. We've discussed fitness over lunch a few times, he gets it. Guess what the trainers in the gym think about him? They personally do his workouts. They take his advice. They are happy for him to go up to other gym users and coach them, because he knows more than they do about free weights. They are professional coaches. He's a parts logistics troubleshooter. See the problem there? (And he said that the trainers we have are actually pretty good compared to those at the many commercial gyms he's used).

IgorPartola 14y ago
Thanks. Yes, I did get lucky. Same way I got lucky with the English teacher I had when I only knew Russian and was getting ready to come to the United States. I honestly had no idea how to tell a good trainer from a bad one, and got paired up with a person that knew what she was doing and also was passionate about her job. However, that was the situation I envisioned as well. I knew how to run and how to bench press, but I didn't know when to do it. I am a software engineer, not a fitness expert. I pretended to be a fitness expert for too long, so I decided to hire someone whose job it was to teach me instead. One small addition to my story is that my gym had a training coordinator who talked to me about my goals and evaluated my fitness level before pairing me with a trainer. So, you could say that it wasn't completely random that I got paired with my trainer, but a result of a deliberate process. Of course that would depend on how good the coordinator is, so the chain of random events goes on.
jetti 14y ago
"Congratulations. You got lucky, and got a great trainer. The sad reality is this is the exception." Ain't that the truth! My wife thought that personal training would get her motivated to lose weight and get in shape. Unfortunately the trainer was a complete jerk. He was inconsistent with making his appointments, to his credit though, he must have the unluckiest family ever because just about ever Saturday was a "family emergency" eye roll. But anyway, since he wasn't consistent with showing up and he didn't do much except count and look at his phone, my wife wasn't getting results. That's when he suggested taking weight loss pills. Actually he didn't suggest, he kept pushing them on her. She actually thought about it (to which I convinced her it isn't a good idea). There has been one good trainer at that place since then but he left for a better job (go figure). I feel that if you go a big box gym, you are walking in to a personal trainer revolving door and that the trainers are sales people in disguise. I have notice that at the gym in my office building (which is an independently owned gym) the trainers seem much more knowledgeable and nobody I have talked to has had any complaints.
- IgorPartola 14y ago
  You may like the concept of a personal training studio. They are typically a bit more expensive, but the atmosphere is very different from what I hear.
  - jetti 14y ago
    As of now, my wife is just going workout with me and skip the personal training. She has had better results in the past by working out on her own, so we are going to revisit that. As for me, if I'm going to spend money on training it will definitely be with a USAW certified coach as I would just want to learn the Olympic lifts. Thank you for the advice though, if my wife does decide to get back in to see a trainer I'll definitely keep that in mind.
  - dredmorbius 14y ago
    You're much better off finding a gym which specializes in training for strength or power sports (e.g.: powerlifting, Oly lifting, even a better Crossfit box) and signing on with a team. This isn't a group class, it's a team sport. The cost-effectiveness is much higher than one-on-one training, the emphasis is on measurable results (higher totals, Crossfit games, etc.), and the group itself is competitive but supportive. One-on-one fitness studios can be good, but it's a high-cost niche.
corresation 14y ago
They are professional coaches. He's a parts logistics troubleshooter. See the problem there? While your story is both anecdotal and second-hand, what you describe doesn't sound that remarkable: Information is largely free now. It is entirely possible if not probable that someone with an interest in a niche will learn more about specific subject matter than generalists who have to know about the whole field.
- IgorPartola 14y ago
  The danger for me was thinking that I knew more than the professional did. Yes, you can be more knowledgeable than the trainer, but would you expect them to know more about, say Ruby, than you do if they dabble in it in addition to their full time job? Seems to me like you can (and probably should) always find a professional who knows her trade better than you do. Otherwise, yes it's a waste of your money, time, and health.
  - corresation 14y ago
    I would absolutely expect to find people in other fields who know specific areas of my field better than me. This is the story of every single person "in computers" since the origin of the career, everyone who dabbles desperate to show that they know some specific better than you.
- andyakb 14y ago
  It isnt as though they were upset that their divorce attorney couldnt answer complex questions about patent law. Free weights should not be considered a niche for a personal trainer in a gym. Even just walking around a gym should show you that primarily you have 3 types of equipment, cardio, weight machines, and free weights, so it isnt as though there is simply too much to learn and understand for somebody whose job it is to be knowledgeable. The issue with many personal trainers (and people you discuss fitness with in general) is that, for the most part, if your diet is good, doing pretty much anything in the gym will get you results. Many trainers have desirable figures and they know it and they constantly have people asking them for advice in their private lives and are paid to give it at their jobs. This causes many to simply assume that what they did is the "correct" way to workout when the truth is that had they dont most any routine with that devotion for many years, they would have gotten similar results. This is much more similar to investing in the sense that the experts often give worse recommendations than you could find yourself with a few hours research. Im sorry this is too anecdotal for you, but if you walk into most gyms, talk to most people who have a clue about training, etc, then this is what you hear; people simply arent properly educated on personal fitness even when that is their job
dredmorbius 14y ago
And among the bright points of the original essay: it details the perverse incentives which lead to specifically this problem. Quite the market failure IMO.
- Swannie 14y ago
  Yes, trainers in a "Globo" gym are incentivized on membership sales, repeat personal sessions, and importantly: running classes. The more classes they are "trained" to run, the more valuable they are as an employee.

by Swannie 14y ago

IgorPartola 14y ago

Thanks. Yes, I did get lucky. Same way I got lucky with the English teacher I had when I only knew Russian and was getting ready to come to the United States. I honestly had no idea how to tell a good trainer from a bad one, and got paired up with a person that knew what she was doing and also was passionate about her job. However, that was the situation I envisioned as well. I knew how to run and how to bench press, but I didn't know when to do it. I am a software engineer, not a fitness expert. I pretended to be a fitness expert for too long, so I decided to hire someone whose job it was to teach me instead. One small addition to my story is that my gym had a training coordinator who talked to me about my goals and evaluated my fitness level before pairing me with a trainer. So, you could say that it wasn't completely random that I got paired with my trainer, but a result of a deliberate process. Of course that would depend on how good the coordinator is, so the chain of random events goes on.

jetti 14y ago

"Congratulations. You got lucky, and got a great trainer. The sad reality is this is the exception." Ain't that the truth! My wife thought that personal training would get her motivated to lose weight and get in shape. Unfortunately the trainer was a complete jerk. He was inconsistent with making his appointments, to his credit though, he must have the unluckiest family ever because just about ever Saturday was a "family emergency" eye roll. But anyway, since he wasn't consistent with showing up and he didn't do much except count and look at his phone, my wife wasn't getting results. That's when he suggested taking weight loss pills. Actually he didn't suggest, he kept pushing them on her. She actually thought about it (to which I convinced her it isn't a good idea). There has been one good trainer at that place since then but he left for a better job (go figure). I feel that if you go a big box gym, you are walking in to a personal trainer revolving door and that the trainers are sales people in disguise. I have notice that at the gym in my office building (which is an independently owned gym) the trainers seem much more knowledgeable and nobody I have talked to has had any complaints.

IgorPartola 14y ago
You may like the concept of a personal training studio. They are typically a bit more expensive, but the atmosphere is very different from what I hear.
- jetti 14y ago
  As of now, my wife is just going workout with me and skip the personal training. She has had better results in the past by working out on her own, so we are going to revisit that. As for me, if I'm going to spend money on training it will definitely be with a USAW certified coach as I would just want to learn the Olympic lifts. Thank you for the advice though, if my wife does decide to get back in to see a trainer I'll definitely keep that in mind.
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  You're much better off finding a gym which specializes in training for strength or power sports (e.g.: powerlifting, Oly lifting, even a better Crossfit box) and signing on with a team. This isn't a group class, it's a team sport. The cost-effectiveness is much higher than one-on-one training, the emphasis is on measurable results (higher totals, Crossfit games, etc.), and the group itself is competitive but supportive. One-on-one fitness studios can be good, but it's a high-cost niche.

corresation 14y ago

They are professional coaches. He's a parts logistics troubleshooter. See the problem there? While your story is both anecdotal and second-hand, what you describe doesn't sound that remarkable: Information is largely free now. It is entirely possible if not probable that someone with an interest in a niche will learn more about specific subject matter than generalists who have to know about the whole field.

IgorPartola 14y ago
The danger for me was thinking that I knew more than the professional did. Yes, you can be more knowledgeable than the trainer, but would you expect them to know more about, say Ruby, than you do if they dabble in it in addition to their full time job? Seems to me like you can (and probably should) always find a professional who knows her trade better than you do. Otherwise, yes it's a waste of your money, time, and health.
- corresation 14y ago
  I would absolutely expect to find people in other fields who know specific areas of my field better than me. This is the story of every single person "in computers" since the origin of the career, everyone who dabbles desperate to show that they know some specific better than you.
andyakb 14y ago
It isnt as though they were upset that their divorce attorney couldnt answer complex questions about patent law. Free weights should not be considered a niche for a personal trainer in a gym. Even just walking around a gym should show you that primarily you have 3 types of equipment, cardio, weight machines, and free weights, so it isnt as though there is simply too much to learn and understand for somebody whose job it is to be knowledgeable. The issue with many personal trainers (and people you discuss fitness with in general) is that, for the most part, if your diet is good, doing pretty much anything in the gym will get you results. Many trainers have desirable figures and they know it and they constantly have people asking them for advice in their private lives and are paid to give it at their jobs. This causes many to simply assume that what they did is the "correct" way to workout when the truth is that had they dont most any routine with that devotion for many years, they would have gotten similar results. This is much more similar to investing in the sense that the experts often give worse recommendations than you could find yourself with a few hours research. Im sorry this is too anecdotal for you, but if you walk into most gyms, talk to most people who have a clue about training, etc, then this is what you hear; people simply arent properly educated on personal fitness even when that is their job

dredmorbius 14y ago

And among the bright points of the original essay: it details the perverse incentives which lead to specifically this problem. Quite the market failure IMO.

Swannie 14y ago
Yes, trainers in a "Globo" gym are incentivized on membership sales, repeat personal sessions, and importantly: running classes. The more classes they are "trained" to run, the more valuable they are as an employee.