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I think a lot of non-europeans have this illusion that EU is this one big liberal, open-minded continent. It is mostly true if you look at certain cities like A

I think a lot of non-europeans have this illusion that EU is this one big liberal, open-minded continent. It is mostly true if you look at certain cities like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, but in general most EU countries are way more conservative, and traditional. Not only abortion, some EU countries still have laws to discriminate people based on their sexuality. One recent example is that one of the prominent openly gay German politician (Jens Spahn) had to give up his position (although he had it coming because his other political scandals) because he used a surrogate mother in US to have a kid with his husband. I didn't know till then, but apparently surrogacy is still illegal in Germany and nobody was talking about making it legal and let women decide what they want to do with their bodies. All those democrats and celebrities in US wants to move to European countries and I would love to see their faces when they realize that old world is still archaic in so many aspects.

mmmmmbop 1mo ago
> openly gay German politician (Jens Spahn) had to give up his position (although he had it coming because his other political scandals) because he used a surrogate mother in US to have a kid with his husband. That's misleading. The issue was hypocrisy. Spahn was a chief advocate against surrogacy. He publicly supported a motion keeping surrogacy illegal in Germany while simultaneously secretly using a surrogate mother in the US. That's not a great look.
- sajithdilshan 1mo ago
  The reason he had to give up his position was not his hypocrisy. If that’s the case then 99% of all politicians would have to give up their positions. Even if he was a supporter of surrogacy, he would still be forced to step back because surrogacy is illegal in Germany. Further, there was no debate or discussions on making surrogacy legal after that incident by the so called all other liberal progressives parties like Greens or the left that pretends to be all for women’s rights and equality
  - Timon3 29d ago
    > The reason he had to give up his position was not his hypocrisy. If that’s the case then 99% of all politicians would have to give up their positions. No, you're lying. His colleagues publicly asked Spahn to resign explicitly because of the hypocrisy: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/spahn-ruecktrittsforderungen-cdu-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/spahn-ruecktrittsforderunge... Over the last few weeks, I've noticed you sharing many such misinformed framings of current news in Germany. May I ask why? > Even if he was a supporter of surrogacy, he would still be forced to step back because surrogacy is illegal in Germany. Further, there was no debate or discussions on making surrogacy legal after that incident by the so called all other liberal progressives parties like Greens or the left that pretends to be all for women’s rights and equality Just like the last few times you claimed "there was no debate" on a topic in Germany: yes there was, it just doesn't follow your caricaturesque understanding of leftist politics.
    - sajithdilshan 29d ago
      [flagged]
      - Timon3 29d ago
        > Sharing the government propaganda site’s link as a source has to be the joke of the year. Since the article is essentially a collection of quotes, each of which is easily verifiable by following links, you'll have to be a little more specific about the "joke". > I’ve shared no misinformation on Germany, besides the hard cold truth. Only suicidally empathetic leftists like yourself would find that to be misinformation. You literally keep claiming variations of "nobody talked about this/that topic!", but in each instance I can attest that you're completely wrong. My own views have nothing to do with the fact that public discussions did happen. I'm sure you'll bring up some arbitrary threshold to justify yourself, but your comments are misrepresentations, and your attack makes it seem very much deliberate. > There was no debate on surrogacy after he resigned[...] I don't know what to tell you, but there was - anyone can easily look up the online discussions, and the many news articles covering the public debate. > it was as if surrogacy was used as a tool and then discarded when it doesn’t benefits the lefties See, this is where your bias becomes undeniable: 1. The majority of complaints about Spahn's bigotry did not come from leftists. Why aren't you mentioning how his own voters complained far more? 2. You're assuming that leftists should behave according to your cartoonish understanding of their views. Being "pro-women’s rights and equality" does not logically imply that one should advocate for surrogacy, unless you presuppose that your subjective views on surrogacy are objectively correct. But since you've already branded me as a "suicidally empathetic leftists", I won't waste more effort explaining this - it's trivial to find discussions and philosophical texts on all this.
gdilla 29d ago
but it is compared to the US. It's not perfect or ideal but like... you can freely move to a place in the EU that's better for you?

mmmmmbop 1mo ago

> openly gay German politician (Jens Spahn) had to give up his position (although he had it coming because his other political scandals) because he used a surrogate mother in US to have a kid with his husband. That's misleading. The issue was hypocrisy. Spahn was a chief advocate against surrogacy. He publicly supported a motion keeping surrogacy illegal in Germany while simultaneously secretly using a surrogate mother in the US. That's not a great look.

sajithdilshan 1mo ago
The reason he had to give up his position was not his hypocrisy. If that’s the case then 99% of all politicians would have to give up their positions. Even if he was a supporter of surrogacy, he would still be forced to step back because surrogacy is illegal in Germany. Further, there was no debate or discussions on making surrogacy legal after that incident by the so called all other liberal progressives parties like Greens or the left that pretends to be all for women’s rights and equality
- Timon3 29d ago
  > The reason he had to give up his position was not his hypocrisy. If that’s the case then 99% of all politicians would have to give up their positions. No, you're lying. His colleagues publicly asked Spahn to resign explicitly because of the hypocrisy: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/spahn-ruecktrittsforderungen-cdu-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/spahn-ruecktrittsforderunge... Over the last few weeks, I've noticed you sharing many such misinformed framings of current news in Germany. May I ask why? > Even if he was a supporter of surrogacy, he would still be forced to step back because surrogacy is illegal in Germany. Further, there was no debate or discussions on making surrogacy legal after that incident by the so called all other liberal progressives parties like Greens or the left that pretends to be all for women’s rights and equality Just like the last few times you claimed "there was no debate" on a topic in Germany: yes there was, it just doesn't follow your caricaturesque understanding of leftist politics.
  - sajithdilshan 29d ago
    [flagged]
    - Timon3 29d ago
      > Sharing the government propaganda site’s link as a source has to be the joke of the year. Since the article is essentially a collection of quotes, each of which is easily verifiable by following links, you'll have to be a little more specific about the "joke". > I’ve shared no misinformation on Germany, besides the hard cold truth. Only suicidally empathetic leftists like yourself would find that to be misinformation. You literally keep claiming variations of "nobody talked about this/that topic!", but in each instance I can attest that you're completely wrong. My own views have nothing to do with the fact that public discussions did happen. I'm sure you'll bring up some arbitrary threshold to justify yourself, but your comments are misrepresentations, and your attack makes it seem very much deliberate. > There was no debate on surrogacy after he resigned[...] I don't know what to tell you, but there was - anyone can easily look up the online discussions, and the many news articles covering the public debate. > it was as if surrogacy was used as a tool and then discarded when it doesn’t benefits the lefties See, this is where your bias becomes undeniable: 1. The majority of complaints about Spahn's bigotry did not come from leftists. Why aren't you mentioning how his own voters complained far more? 2. You're assuming that leftists should behave according to your cartoonish understanding of their views. Being "pro-women’s rights and equality" does not logically imply that one should advocate for surrogacy, unless you presuppose that your subjective views on surrogacy are objectively correct. But since you've already branded me as a "suicidally empathetic leftists", I won't waste more effort explaining this - it's trivial to find discussions and philosophical texts on all this.

gdilla 29d ago

but it is compared to the US. It's not perfect or ideal but like... you can freely move to a place in the EU that's better for you?