3 ms·

I think I should start posting a reminder in Flock threads that Axon is a Flock competitor, is also engaged in mass surveillance, and is possibly even worse, bu

I think I should start posting a reminder in Flock threads that Axon is a Flock competitor, is also engaged in mass surveillance, and is possibly even worse, but there’s rarely any mention of it. Journalists need to do some digging there. This shouldn’t just be a Flock story, or Flock will just get bought up or something and everyone will move on. (The above should not be read as supporting Flock or discouraging further investigation.) > The camera’s logs also show the camera struggling with storage. Its logs recorded more than 27,000 “no space left on device” errors while trying to save full-resolution images, along with tens of thousands of related errors, crashes, and reboots. At the same time, about every two minutes, code checked that the camera was still running and logged the message, “Who’s a good boy?!” More than 12,000 of those messages appear in the recovered logs. Lol

jordanb 19d ago
"Axon is Flock but worse" will be the next big fight as police departments are pulling a fast one and saying "we got rid of Flock" by switching to Axon.
- ofcrpls 19d ago
  Axon is the default for the on-body camera system. The barrage of cop tv shows use them as part of their promotional relationships. Flock decided to not attack their market, in stead go for the adjacent space.
- kotaKat 19d ago
  Bonus points: https://fccid.io/X4GS06009/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-8930936 https://fccid.io/X4GS06009/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-8... "Page 17" in the document shows a spicy little chip. https://www.quectel.com/product/kg100s-amazon-sidewalk-module/ https://www.quectel.com/product/kg100s-amazon-sidewalk-modul... Axon not only includes a cell modem... they're on Amazon Sidewalk, baby. https://coverage.sidewalk.amazon/ https://coverage.sidewalk.amazon/
  - mr_machine 17d ago
    That's very interesting, and I've not seen it pointed out anywhere else. Have you?
- jkestner 19d ago
  Axon (among others) has operations hubs for data fusion centers and other platforms for police like Evidence.com, so it’s an easy sell to departments. Communities are starting to pivot to the wider issue, but a reason that this issue found purpose is that Flock is a more evocative target than “ALPRs”. I think it wouldn’t be a bad thing if “Flock” becomes the generic name.
- scarecrowbob 19d ago
  I live near Durango, CO and this happened last week.
- tomwheeler 19d ago
  This happened in a St. Louis suburb recently.
LowTechHN 19d ago
[dead]
CoopaTroopa 19d ago
While highly unprofessional, the "Who's a good boy?!" status message makes me like them a tiny bit more
- wl 19d ago
  For those unaware, embedded devices usually have a "watchdog" timer that needs to be periodically reset ("fed"/"pet"/"kicked") when everything is operating correctly or else the device will reboot as a fail-safe. This log message probably indicates when they're resetting the watchdog timer.
cuvinny 19d ago
While Axon's system should be under the microscope too I don't think they have the nation wide cloud that Flock is doing and requires specific agreements to share data. Maybe that is getting abused to form a national database but I imagine it was designed so say a county sheriff department and local city PDs could share resources. I don't think most people are that concerned about things like that (though they should be), it is the nation wide surveillance that creeps people out. That and the stalking of course and both systems can be used for that.
- cucumber3732842 19d ago
  Axon and Motorola also do a lot more to court state agencies who have grand plans of monitoring some highway corridor so their buddies at DEA/CPB/SMD/whatever can tip them off and their "drug task force" can make a newsworthy bust. Flock by contrast courts local PDs who will catch a package thief or two but they really just want to have the drag net at their finger tips so that when some more equal animal's cat gets stolen they can walk back in time and figure out the short list of who could've done it.
wl 19d ago
Also, a reminder that ALPR abuse predates Flock. Flock has just made it more visible. About a decade ago I personally heard a cop let it slip that he had plate-stalked someone for the crime of saying mean things about his department on Twitter. The difference today is that more departments have access to these kinds of tools. Fixed ALPRs aren't the only privacy problem, either. Many tow trucks have roving ALPRs that feed into big databases. The notion is that it helps them repossess cars that might be garaged at home. That data, however, is for sale to third parties.
- cucumber3732842 19d ago
  I work in a different embedded space but our keepalive heartbeat messages have a payload of <3
  - fullstop 19d ago
    Man, ours is just '\0'.
jkestner 19d ago
Reminds me why a friend picked RCN over Comcast for his Internet. “They’re the more incompetent evil company.”
mrheosuper 18d ago
>“Who’s a good boy?!” That a good watchdog kick message NGL.
jeffrallen 18d ago
Cisco sells IP connected high def cameras. I was happy to stop working on that project, because it was clear that the target market was public facial recognition (targeted advertisement in malls, and other useless/creepy things).

jordanb 19d ago

"Axon is Flock but worse" will be the next big fight as police departments are pulling a fast one and saying "we got rid of Flock" by switching to Axon.

ofcrpls 19d ago
Axon is the default for the on-body camera system. The barrage of cop tv shows use them as part of their promotional relationships. Flock decided to not attack their market, in stead go for the adjacent space.
kotaKat 19d ago
Bonus points: https://fccid.io/X4GS06009/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-8930936 https://fccid.io/X4GS06009/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-8... "Page 17" in the document shows a spicy little chip. https://www.quectel.com/product/kg100s-amazon-sidewalk-module/ https://www.quectel.com/product/kg100s-amazon-sidewalk-modul... Axon not only includes a cell modem... they're on Amazon Sidewalk, baby. https://coverage.sidewalk.amazon/ https://coverage.sidewalk.amazon/
- mr_machine 17d ago
  That's very interesting, and I've not seen it pointed out anywhere else. Have you?
jkestner 19d ago
Axon (among others) has operations hubs for data fusion centers and other platforms for police like Evidence.com, so it’s an easy sell to departments. Communities are starting to pivot to the wider issue, but a reason that this issue found purpose is that Flock is a more evocative target than “ALPRs”. I think it wouldn’t be a bad thing if “Flock” becomes the generic name.
scarecrowbob 19d ago
I live near Durango, CO and this happened last week.
tomwheeler 19d ago
This happened in a St. Louis suburb recently.

LowTechHN 19d ago

[dead]

CoopaTroopa 19d ago

While highly unprofessional, the "Who's a good boy?!" status message makes me like them a tiny bit more

wl 19d ago
For those unaware, embedded devices usually have a "watchdog" timer that needs to be periodically reset ("fed"/"pet"/"kicked") when everything is operating correctly or else the device will reboot as a fail-safe. This log message probably indicates when they're resetting the watchdog timer.

cuvinny 19d ago

While Axon's system should be under the microscope too I don't think they have the nation wide cloud that Flock is doing and requires specific agreements to share data. Maybe that is getting abused to form a national database but I imagine it was designed so say a county sheriff department and local city PDs could share resources. I don't think most people are that concerned about things like that (though they should be), it is the nation wide surveillance that creeps people out. That and the stalking of course and both systems can be used for that.

cucumber3732842 19d ago
Axon and Motorola also do a lot more to court state agencies who have grand plans of monitoring some highway corridor so their buddies at DEA/CPB/SMD/whatever can tip them off and their "drug task force" can make a newsworthy bust. Flock by contrast courts local PDs who will catch a package thief or two but they really just want to have the drag net at their finger tips so that when some more equal animal's cat gets stolen they can walk back in time and figure out the short list of who could've done it.

wl 19d ago

Also, a reminder that ALPR abuse predates Flock. Flock has just made it more visible. About a decade ago I personally heard a cop let it slip that he had plate-stalked someone for the crime of saying mean things about his department on Twitter. The difference today is that more departments have access to these kinds of tools. Fixed ALPRs aren't the only privacy problem, either. Many tow trucks have roving ALPRs that feed into big databases. The notion is that it helps them repossess cars that might be garaged at home. That data, however, is for sale to third parties.

cucumber3732842 19d ago
I work in a different embedded space but our keepalive heartbeat messages have a payload of <3
- fullstop 19d ago
  Man, ours is just '\0'.

jkestner 19d ago

Reminds me why a friend picked RCN over Comcast for his Internet. “They’re the more incompetent evil company.”

mrheosuper 18d ago

>“Who’s a good boy?!” That a good watchdog kick message NGL.

jeffrallen 18d ago

Cisco sells IP connected high def cameras. I was happy to stop working on that project, because it was clear that the target market was public facial recognition (targeted advertisement in malls, and other useless/creepy things).