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Strong argument in favor of web vs native apps. If you need bluetooth on iOS checkout the web bluetooth iOS safari extension i've been working on recently: http

by wklm 12d ago

Strong argument in favor of web vs native apps. If you need bluetooth on iOS checkout the web bluetooth iOS safari extension i've been working on recently: https://beacio.com https://beacio.com

nchmy 12d ago
Yes, a truly Open Web is the solution that we need. It already works everywhere with a single codebase, and is more secure and private than native apps. But Apple prevents that by forcing all browsers to use terrible WebKit on iOS. Endless more information on all of this at https://infrequently.org/series/browser-choice-must-matter/ https://infrequently.org/series/browser-choice-must-matter/ https://open-web-advocacy.org https://open-web-advocacy.org
- CharlesW 11d ago
  Note that Alex Russell is a Blink partisan, currently supporting Blink at Microsoft and formerly having done so at Google. Folks like that don't take kindly to the idea that a Blink monoculture might not be a great thing, and definitely do not share the opinion that it's critical to the open web that Apple not cede the open web to Blink. Remember, Blink began as Google's 2013 fork of WebKit. They've embraced and extended it, but thankfully the "extinguish" step is taking longer than they thought. This makes the "open web, as long as it's my engine" people upset. Safari's PWA support is not as complete as Chrome's today, but it's as good as Firefox's support and perfectly capable of supporting rich, standards-based apps. https://pwascore.com/ https://pwascore.com/
  - nchmy 11d ago
    The fact that your "argument" rests upon baseless ad hominem, I'm mostly inclined to not even respond. I'll simply say that if you bothered reading anything (let alone objectively), you'd clearly see that no one is arguing for a blink monoculture. They're arguing for allowing everyone to choose whichever browser and browser engine that you want. Safari included. The math isnt mathing on that site... And, no, safari is NOT capable of PWAs - which is the primary point of contention (not obscure APIs, though safari generally lags in all of that as well). They deliberately hobble PWAs and make them very difficult to install. edit: also, your site is just obviously biased/poorly done, because there exist many better comparisons of web features, which show how vastly far behind Safari is, often even of Firefox. This is unsurprising given your chosen style of rhetoric https://wpt.fyi/ https://wpt.fyi/ https://webstatus.dev/ https://webstatus.dev/
    - wklm 11d ago
      True that. Apple has strong economic incentives to nerf PWAs, and I don't share their privacy concerns about web bluetooth. If anything, forcing users who need bluetooth to install shady third-party browsers creates way more risk. Based on beacio's download numbers, quite a few people would rather have web bluetooth available in their default browser.
    - CharlesW 11d ago
      It's not ad hominem since I'm critiquing their position, not their character. Their positions are public and well-documented, which is why it's important to point out the bias of what you linked to. > And, no, safari is NOT capable of PWAs… Incorrect, see my link. PWA installation on iOS is simple and idiomatic, and the same as it is for all websites: Share > Add to Home Screen.
      - nchmy 11d ago
        It is rare that someone voluntarily exposes their lack of insight and integrity so thoroughly... Kudos..? your argument amounts to "this person is incapable of being objective, let alone decent, because they work at xyz". Moreover, you literally didn't address a single thing presented in either link that i shared - which directly refute your nonsense. Pure ad hominem, and worse. You are not a serious person if you think that PWA installation is "simple and idiomatic on iOS". It is buried multiple menus, taps, drags etc... deep. Most chromium browsers present a button right in the address bar or at least conspicuously in the main menu. Moreover, they allow developers to ask for the ability to prompt users to install the app. https://adactio.com/journal/18252 https://adactio.com/journal/18252 https://adactio.com/journal/22757 https://adactio.com/journal/22757 Apple forces their employees to debase themselves in order to defend this status quo. eg: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/1245 https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/1245 https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/619 https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/619 Take care. And keep that math not mathing!
      - owebmaster 11d ago
        > Incorrect, see my link. PWA installation on iOS is simple and idiomatic > Share > Add to Home Screen. Are you sure "share" is idiomatic here? Also calling a 6 steps process simple is laughable. One-click prompt to install is simple and part of PWA API that safari doesn't implement.

by wklm 12d ago

Strong argument in favor of web vs native apps. If you need bluetooth on iOS checkout the web bluetooth iOS safari extension i've been working on recently: https://beacio.com https://beacio.com

nchmy 12d ago

Yes, a truly Open Web is the solution that we need. It already works everywhere with a single codebase, and is more secure and private than native apps. But Apple prevents that by forcing all browsers to use terrible WebKit on iOS. Endless more information on all of this at https://infrequently.org/series/browser-choice-must-matter/ https://infrequently.org/series/browser-choice-must-matter/ https://open-web-advocacy.org https://open-web-advocacy.org

CharlesW 11d ago
Note that Alex Russell is a Blink partisan, currently supporting Blink at Microsoft and formerly having done so at Google. Folks like that don't take kindly to the idea that a Blink monoculture might not be a great thing, and definitely do not share the opinion that it's critical to the open web that Apple not cede the open web to Blink. Remember, Blink began as Google's 2013 fork of WebKit. They've embraced and extended it, but thankfully the "extinguish" step is taking longer than they thought. This makes the "open web, as long as it's my engine" people upset. Safari's PWA support is not as complete as Chrome's today, but it's as good as Firefox's support and perfectly capable of supporting rich, standards-based apps. https://pwascore.com/ https://pwascore.com/
- nchmy 11d ago
  The fact that your "argument" rests upon baseless ad hominem, I'm mostly inclined to not even respond. I'll simply say that if you bothered reading anything (let alone objectively), you'd clearly see that no one is arguing for a blink monoculture. They're arguing for allowing everyone to choose whichever browser and browser engine that you want. Safari included. The math isnt mathing on that site... And, no, safari is NOT capable of PWAs - which is the primary point of contention (not obscure APIs, though safari generally lags in all of that as well). They deliberately hobble PWAs and make them very difficult to install. edit: also, your site is just obviously biased/poorly done, because there exist many better comparisons of web features, which show how vastly far behind Safari is, often even of Firefox. This is unsurprising given your chosen style of rhetoric https://wpt.fyi/ https://wpt.fyi/ https://webstatus.dev/ https://webstatus.dev/
  - wklm 11d ago
    True that. Apple has strong economic incentives to nerf PWAs, and I don't share their privacy concerns about web bluetooth. If anything, forcing users who need bluetooth to install shady third-party browsers creates way more risk. Based on beacio's download numbers, quite a few people would rather have web bluetooth available in their default browser.
  - CharlesW 11d ago
    It's not ad hominem since I'm critiquing their position, not their character. Their positions are public and well-documented, which is why it's important to point out the bias of what you linked to. > And, no, safari is NOT capable of PWAs… Incorrect, see my link. PWA installation on iOS is simple and idiomatic, and the same as it is for all websites: Share > Add to Home Screen.
    - nchmy 11d ago
      It is rare that someone voluntarily exposes their lack of insight and integrity so thoroughly... Kudos..? your argument amounts to "this person is incapable of being objective, let alone decent, because they work at xyz". Moreover, you literally didn't address a single thing presented in either link that i shared - which directly refute your nonsense. Pure ad hominem, and worse. You are not a serious person if you think that PWA installation is "simple and idiomatic on iOS". It is buried multiple menus, taps, drags etc... deep. Most chromium browsers present a button right in the address bar or at least conspicuously in the main menu. Moreover, they allow developers to ask for the ability to prompt users to install the app. https://adactio.com/journal/18252 https://adactio.com/journal/18252 https://adactio.com/journal/22757 https://adactio.com/journal/22757 Apple forces their employees to debase themselves in order to defend this status quo. eg: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/1245 https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/1245 https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/619 https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/619 Take care. And keep that math not mathing!
    - owebmaster 11d ago
      > Incorrect, see my link. PWA installation on iOS is simple and idiomatic > Share > Add to Home Screen. Are you sure "share" is idiomatic here? Also calling a 6 steps process simple is laughable. One-click prompt to install is simple and part of PWA API that safari doesn't implement.