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It's the law and it should be very strictly enforced because otherwise it'd open the door for the Middle East and North Africa... But I don't think Canada would

It's the law and it should be very strictly enforced because otherwise it'd open the door for the Middle East and North Africa... But I don't think Canada would want to join the EU, it's anti-Trump bluster.

dghlsakjg 17d ago
Canada does not want to join the E.U. as a full member and that is not what is being offered. Canada very much is not “blustering” when it comes to Trump. A big majority of Canadians see sovereignty and less reliance on the US as a massive issue. Canada has embraced China in a way that was unthinkable 5 years ago in a deal intended to hedge against the US. The Canadian Conservative Party lost an election it was thought to have a guaranteed win from and has continued losing seats since then in large part due to their half hearted response to Trump.
- mytailorisrich 17d ago
  I'll go back to my first comment above: What is an "associate member"? We don't know because it's a concept that does not exist but the very name suggests something stronger and tighter than anything that exists with non-members that have very close ties (Norway, Switzerland, Iceland). Hence I think it is safe to say that this is a lot of bluster, or ar least hyperbole, considering what Canada and the EU might really want and the long and complicated treaty process to define and create an "associate member" status.
  - dghlsakjg 17d ago
    Bluster has a connotation of empty threats and loudness for the sake fo loudness. Canada has been making real moves, and doing it quietly. In the past year non-US exports have grown by a record 11%. New trade and defense deals have been signed with more than 20 countries. Whatever is going on in Ottawa, bluster is not the word for it.
    - mytailorisrich 16d ago
      Not Canada, it is Von Der Leyen who took upon herself to use this "associate member" term and even EU countries are surprised not least because of basically whhat I explained earlier [1]. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-capitals-mark-carney-ursula-von-der-leyen-associate-membership-canada/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-capitals-mark-carney-ursu...
      - dghlsakjg 16d ago
        Ah. I thought you were saying that Canada's pivots outside the US were anti trump bluster. No idea about the EU side rhetoric, but it may not be bluster considering that Canada has huge potash and oil/gas reserves that could replace Kremlin aligned sources in the EU (and the defense deal that Canada just announced with Ukr.).
coffeebeqn 17d ago
Middle eastern or North African countries can’t join because the member states don’t want them to join and they need unanimous agreement. See Turkeys failed bid for example. Even a country with positive general public appeal like Ukraine is very unlikely to join in the next 10 years
- mytailorisrich 17d ago
  Yes, unanimous agreement is required once a country has applied, as part of the process of accepting the application. However Article 49 of the European Union states: "Any European State which respects the values referred to in Article 2 and is committed to promoting them may apply to become a member of the Union". So Middle Eastern and North African countries (and Canada) cannot apply in the first place. I think Turkey is in the grey area that allows some wriggle room as it spans both Europe and Asia.
rsynnott 17d ago
Turkey, only a tiny part of which is geographically in Europe, is a candidate (though talks are suspended in practice until, at least, Erdogan is out of power), and Cyprus is geographically in Asia/Middle East, not Europe. The rules could certainly be loosened further with agreement. But also, yes, Canada probably does not want to be a full member, at least in the near-term; they want some sort of alignment not amounting to full membership. I wouldn't be totally amazed if we look back on this as the start of the (long-suggested) two speed EU system.
- mytailorisrich 16d ago
  Good point regarding Cyprus but considering the political and social situation in Europe I think that any loosening of the rules is a non-starter.

dghlsakjg 17d ago

Canada does not want to join the E.U. as a full member and that is not what is being offered. Canada very much is not “blustering” when it comes to Trump. A big majority of Canadians see sovereignty and less reliance on the US as a massive issue. Canada has embraced China in a way that was unthinkable 5 years ago in a deal intended to hedge against the US. The Canadian Conservative Party lost an election it was thought to have a guaranteed win from and has continued losing seats since then in large part due to their half hearted response to Trump.

mytailorisrich 17d ago
I'll go back to my first comment above: What is an "associate member"? We don't know because it's a concept that does not exist but the very name suggests something stronger and tighter than anything that exists with non-members that have very close ties (Norway, Switzerland, Iceland). Hence I think it is safe to say that this is a lot of bluster, or ar least hyperbole, considering what Canada and the EU might really want and the long and complicated treaty process to define and create an "associate member" status.
- dghlsakjg 17d ago
  Bluster has a connotation of empty threats and loudness for the sake fo loudness. Canada has been making real moves, and doing it quietly. In the past year non-US exports have grown by a record 11%. New trade and defense deals have been signed with more than 20 countries. Whatever is going on in Ottawa, bluster is not the word for it.
  - mytailorisrich 16d ago
    Not Canada, it is Von Der Leyen who took upon herself to use this "associate member" term and even EU countries are surprised not least because of basically whhat I explained earlier [1]. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-capitals-mark-carney-ursula-von-der-leyen-associate-membership-canada/ https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-capitals-mark-carney-ursu...
    - dghlsakjg 16d ago
      Ah. I thought you were saying that Canada's pivots outside the US were anti trump bluster. No idea about the EU side rhetoric, but it may not be bluster considering that Canada has huge potash and oil/gas reserves that could replace Kremlin aligned sources in the EU (and the defense deal that Canada just announced with Ukr.).

coffeebeqn 17d ago

Middle eastern or North African countries can’t join because the member states don’t want them to join and they need unanimous agreement. See Turkeys failed bid for example. Even a country with positive general public appeal like Ukraine is very unlikely to join in the next 10 years

mytailorisrich 17d ago
Yes, unanimous agreement is required once a country has applied, as part of the process of accepting the application. However Article 49 of the European Union states: "Any European State which respects the values referred to in Article 2 and is committed to promoting them may apply to become a member of the Union". So Middle Eastern and North African countries (and Canada) cannot apply in the first place. I think Turkey is in the grey area that allows some wriggle room as it spans both Europe and Asia.

rsynnott 17d ago

Turkey, only a tiny part of which is geographically in Europe, is a candidate (though talks are suspended in practice until, at least, Erdogan is out of power), and Cyprus is geographically in Asia/Middle East, not Europe. The rules could certainly be loosened further with agreement. But also, yes, Canada probably does not want to be a full member, at least in the near-term; they want some sort of alignment not amounting to full membership. I wouldn't be totally amazed if we look back on this as the start of the (long-suggested) two speed EU system.

mytailorisrich 16d ago
Good point regarding Cyprus but considering the political and social situation in Europe I think that any loosening of the rules is a non-starter.