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This was one of the stupid things that was touted as a benefit of not being in the EU during brexit. That we'd still have to comply with EU rules if we wanted

by ChrisRR 18d ago

This was one of the stupid things that was touted as a benefit of not being in the EU during brexit. That we'd still have to comply with EU rules if we wanted to trade with them, but we wouldn't have any vote in those rules

Fnoord 18d ago
Well, the Brexit campaign was manipulated by a state actor (or rather: 'a criminal actor disguised as a state'). None of the alt-right nationalism is in the long-term benefits of the country. This is globalism, the end game. You either team up, thereby reducing your costs, or you get swallowed. Ask Ukraine, Tibet, Hong Kong how it worked out for them not belonging to a bigger team. So divide and conquer is a logical move for the opponent, and it happens to align with alt-right. There is also documented evidence of external influence in these. A medium such as Follow The Money has documented such in various of their articles.
- whisperenjoyer 18d ago
  > Ask Ukraine The whole political course of Ukraine in the last ~20 years is mostly about teaming up with EU and NATO, isn't it?
  - rsynnott 18d ago
    ... No. Not until this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
    - bryanlarsen 18d ago
      Yanukovych was elected in 2010 promising "economic modernisation, greater economic ties with the EU, and military non-alignment." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych). His backsliding on those promises is what caused the Revolution of Dignity. I think the OP's statement is roughly accurate.
  - dragonwriter 18d ago
    > The whole political course of Ukraine in the last ~20 years is mostly about teaming up with EU and NATO, isn't it? Not, on the NATO front at least, the part between NATO bending to Russian demands not to extend Membership Action Plans to Ukraine and Georgia in 2008 (followed immediately by the Russian invasion of Georgia)—when Ukraine abandoned pursuit of NATO membership—and the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014, only after which did it resume pursuit of NATO membership. The resumption is sometimes tied to the Revolution of Dignity preceding the Russian invasion, and even occasionally claimed to be a reason for the invasion, but the decision to abandon the neutrality position was well after and a response to the invasion rather than the other way around.

by ChrisRR 18d ago

Fnoord 18d ago

Well, the Brexit campaign was manipulated by a state actor (or rather: 'a criminal actor disguised as a state'). None of the alt-right nationalism is in the long-term benefits of the country. This is globalism, the end game. You either team up, thereby reducing your costs, or you get swallowed. Ask Ukraine, Tibet, Hong Kong how it worked out for them not belonging to a bigger team. So divide and conquer is a logical move for the opponent, and it happens to align with alt-right. There is also documented evidence of external influence in these. A medium such as Follow The Money has documented such in various of their articles.

whisperenjoyer 18d ago
> Ask Ukraine The whole political course of Ukraine in the last ~20 years is mostly about teaming up with EU and NATO, isn't it?
- rsynnott 18d ago
  ... No. Not until this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity
  - bryanlarsen 18d ago
    Yanukovych was elected in 2010 promising "economic modernisation, greater economic ties with the EU, and military non-alignment." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych). His backsliding on those promises is what caused the Revolution of Dignity. I think the OP's statement is roughly accurate.
- dragonwriter 18d ago
  > The whole political course of Ukraine in the last ~20 years is mostly about teaming up with EU and NATO, isn't it? Not, on the NATO front at least, the part between NATO bending to Russian demands not to extend Membership Action Plans to Ukraine and Georgia in 2008 (followed immediately by the Russian invasion of Georgia)—when Ukraine abandoned pursuit of NATO membership—and the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014, only after which did it resume pursuit of NATO membership. The resumption is sometimes tied to the Revolution of Dignity preceding the Russian invasion, and even occasionally claimed to be a reason for the invasion, but the decision to abandon the neutrality position was well after and a response to the invasion rather than the other way around.