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That's a little metaphysical for my taste. If its the same bytes of text, provenance is destroyed anyways, so who knows if the tree fell in the forest. "Subst

That's a little metaphysical for my taste. If its the same bytes of text, provenance is destroyed anyways, so who knows if the tree fell in the forest. "Substantially" to me would mean not your ideas and not your writing. I'm sure there are borderline cases that are hard to decide but a rule of thumb for me would be if it takes more time to read than it took the "author" to write.

matheusmoreira 18d ago
The issue is metaphysical. If AI can produce the exact same output a human would, does it matter who made it? It's possible for the ideas to come from the author while the writing is outsourced to someone else. Ghostwriting is an established practice. Effort involved in writing sounds a lot like the "sweat of of the brow" doctrine, which is rejected even by copyright monopolists.
- nixon_why69 18d ago
  It's about effort into thinking. If no effort went into either thinking or writing, then I'll plead guilty to sweat of the brow doctrine. Again, just send me the prompt and I'll feed it to AI myself.
  - matheusmoreira 18d ago
    Reading is about learning interesting new ideas, enjoying a narrative. The suffering of the author is beside the point. I can sympathize with the notion that AI writing currently sucks, but not that it's automatically invalid or deserving of mockery. Maybe one day we'll have far better models. Maybe they'll do a good job without inserting any load-bearing vocabulary. Asking for the prompts is fine, but might not be sufficient. The process iterative, and may incorporate data that won't be published. For example, I recently published a Sol/Fable benchmark article. It would be trivial for anyone to prompt a new version of the article if they had the raw benchmark data, but this data will never be published.
    - nixon_why69 18d ago
      It's not about how good or bad the AI writing is. It's about the human interaction, if someone outsourced their thinking to AI then they are bullshitting me and I will rate their thoughts appropriately at the human level.
      - matheusmoreira 17d ago
        You can value human authorship without automatically ridiculing anyone using AI.
  - fragmede 17d ago
    If someone's already burned the trees down to generate it once, why would you want to burn more trees, just so you can do it yourself? Do you hate the Earth or something?

matheusmoreira 18d ago

The issue is metaphysical. If AI can produce the exact same output a human would, does it matter who made it? It's possible for the ideas to come from the author while the writing is outsourced to someone else. Ghostwriting is an established practice. Effort involved in writing sounds a lot like the "sweat of of the brow" doctrine, which is rejected even by copyright monopolists.

nixon_why69 18d ago
It's about effort into thinking. If no effort went into either thinking or writing, then I'll plead guilty to sweat of the brow doctrine. Again, just send me the prompt and I'll feed it to AI myself.
- matheusmoreira 18d ago
  Reading is about learning interesting new ideas, enjoying a narrative. The suffering of the author is beside the point. I can sympathize with the notion that AI writing currently sucks, but not that it's automatically invalid or deserving of mockery. Maybe one day we'll have far better models. Maybe they'll do a good job without inserting any load-bearing vocabulary. Asking for the prompts is fine, but might not be sufficient. The process iterative, and may incorporate data that won't be published. For example, I recently published a Sol/Fable benchmark article. It would be trivial for anyone to prompt a new version of the article if they had the raw benchmark data, but this data will never be published.
  - nixon_why69 18d ago
    It's not about how good or bad the AI writing is. It's about the human interaction, if someone outsourced their thinking to AI then they are bullshitting me and I will rate their thoughts appropriately at the human level.
    - matheusmoreira 17d ago
      You can value human authorship without automatically ridiculing anyone using AI.
- fragmede 17d ago
  If someone's already burned the trees down to generate it once, why would you want to burn more trees, just so you can do it yourself? Do you hate the Earth or something?