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EU already has a constitution (?)

by bawolff 10d ago

mattashii 10d ago
Nope, it doesn't. It's current legal basis is a series of treaties, the attempt to create a constitution failed when in 2005 the various countries' local referenda on supporting an EU constitution failed to garner the required support. FRA' referendum failed 45-55, and NLD's consultative referendum on June 1 also gave a solid "no" (38.5% yes vs 61.5% no).
- bawolff 10d ago
  > It's current legal basis is a series of treaties But that meets the normal definition of a constitution. Just because the document isn't named the "constitution" doesn't make it any less of one. Most countries have constitutions that look like EU's legal basis. America style constitutions are less common. The later attempt to consolidate the constitution failing, doesn't make the previous legal basis any less of a constitution.
  - mattashii 10d ago
    That's fair criticism. The deeper reason why it's not a constitution is because it's not the cornerstone of legal, moral, and existential rights of the signatory constituent countries. These countries each have their own constitution that they are beholden to, with no higher authority to fall back to. The Treaty of Maastricht (and later, Lisbon) can't be guaranteed to have precedence when called upon if they conflict with the constituent countries' constitution(s), and all legislation covered under the treaties must be implemented separately and completely as locally applicable laws before going into effect. The EU regulations generally prescribe a deadline for implementing such regulations, but a country could (and sometimes does, see e.g. Hungary under Orban) break its obligations under the Treaty and ignore or never implement the agreed-upon regulations, and the EU would be unable to do much to enforce its regulations.
- gizajob 10d ago
  But as it’s proven time and time again, when there’s democratic pushback and rejection of its ideas, it just ignores the democracy and continues with the ideas regardless. The Lisbon treaty being rejected has just led to all its aims being implemented piecemeal anyway. And nobody in Europe asked for or voted for having a president, yet here is Ursula speaking for everyone today, again.
cromka 10d ago
As others said. Constitution and an elected president would pave way into a common military.
- freehorse 10d ago
  Yeah, good to make it clear that militarization of europe is what is actually debated, not democracy.
  - cromka 10d ago
    Who said that?

EU already has a constitution (?)

by bawolff 10d ago

EU already has a constitution (?)

Nope, it doesn't. It's current legal basis is a series of treaties, the attempt to create a constitution failed when in 2005 the various countries' local referenda on supporting an EU constitution failed to garner the required support. FRA' referendum failed 45-55, and NLD's consultative referendum on June 1 also gave a solid "no" (38.5% yes vs 61.5% no).

bawolff 10d ago
> It's current legal basis is a series of treaties But that meets the normal definition of a constitution. Just because the document isn't named the "constitution" doesn't make it any less of one. Most countries have constitutions that look like EU's legal basis. America style constitutions are less common. The later attempt to consolidate the constitution failing, doesn't make the previous legal basis any less of a constitution.
- mattashii 10d ago
  That's fair criticism. The deeper reason why it's not a constitution is because it's not the cornerstone of legal, moral, and existential rights of the signatory constituent countries. These countries each have their own constitution that they are beholden to, with no higher authority to fall back to. The Treaty of Maastricht (and later, Lisbon) can't be guaranteed to have precedence when called upon if they conflict with the constituent countries' constitution(s), and all legislation covered under the treaties must be implemented separately and completely as locally applicable laws before going into effect. The EU regulations generally prescribe a deadline for implementing such regulations, but a country could (and sometimes does, see e.g. Hungary under Orban) break its obligations under the Treaty and ignore or never implement the agreed-upon regulations, and the EU would be unable to do much to enforce its regulations.
gizajob 10d ago
But as it’s proven time and time again, when there’s democratic pushback and rejection of its ideas, it just ignores the democracy and continues with the ideas regardless. The Lisbon treaty being rejected has just led to all its aims being implemented piecemeal anyway. And nobody in Europe asked for or voted for having a president, yet here is Ursula speaking for everyone today, again.

cromka 10d ago

As others said. Constitution and an elected president would pave way into a common military.

freehorse 10d ago
Yeah, good to make it clear that militarization of europe is what is actually debated, not democracy.
- cromka 10d ago
  Who said that?