2 ms·

As someone who drives manual, and so actually having to downshift myself when necessary, I would rather negotiate a larger roundabout 100% of the time than havi

As someone who drives manual, and so actually having to downshift myself when necessary, I would rather negotiate a larger roundabout 100% of the time than having to stop at a red light 30% of the time. On my current gearbox, I can dip to around 30 km/h and gently accelerate while staying in 4th gear, which I'd be in up to around 50 km/h. So if I hit an uncontended larger roundabout that takes me 50-30-50, I don't have to do anything, transmission-wise. Manual driving culture is probably one reason roundabouts have been popular in Europe long before North America started to warm up to them.

williamdclt 10d ago
I don't understand the argument? Seems like you're saying that not having to handle a gear change makes roundabouts better, but that applies to both your manual technique and automatic, so I don't see how Europe would be different from NA? Also, I'm not a particularly frequent/experienced driver but 4th gear at 30kmh on a roundabout doesn't seem very safe, it does not leave you much control to react to something unexpected (some car coming up that you didn't see, a car who changed their mind last minute about exiting, a car changing lane poorly...). Being able to decelerate or accelerate quickly is pretty important on a roundabout. Not such a big deal on a very big roundabout with excellent visibility where there's no-one, but that's pretty rare in europe at least.
- kazinator 10d ago
  Rather, what I don't understand is the original argument that roundabouts are bad because the busy direction of traffic has to slow down and gear down unconditionally, whether or not the rare cross traffic is present, so it is then better to have a traffic light there. The "you need power to accelerate out of danger" is a motorcycle argument (and a pretty flimsy one); in a car, you are not gas-pedaling your way out of anything. Your emergency control devices are brakes and steering, that's it. There are moves that powerful acceleration lets you get away with, and they are all reckless, and often built on the assumption that only you have that acceleration. People are now using their high-torque EVs like this. You will never be in a collision close call caused by someone or something doing something unexpected, where the reaction of stepping on the accelerator is the action that saved the day. Can't deny that it could help run from a tsunami wave or fire or something.

williamdclt 10d ago

I don't understand the argument? Seems like you're saying that not having to handle a gear change makes roundabouts better, but that applies to both your manual technique and automatic, so I don't see how Europe would be different from NA? Also, I'm not a particularly frequent/experienced driver but 4th gear at 30kmh on a roundabout doesn't seem very safe, it does not leave you much control to react to something unexpected (some car coming up that you didn't see, a car who changed their mind last minute about exiting, a car changing lane poorly...). Being able to decelerate or accelerate quickly is pretty important on a roundabout. Not such a big deal on a very big roundabout with excellent visibility where there's no-one, but that's pretty rare in europe at least.

kazinator 10d ago
Rather, what I don't understand is the original argument that roundabouts are bad because the busy direction of traffic has to slow down and gear down unconditionally, whether or not the rare cross traffic is present, so it is then better to have a traffic light there. The "you need power to accelerate out of danger" is a motorcycle argument (and a pretty flimsy one); in a car, you are not gas-pedaling your way out of anything. Your emergency control devices are brakes and steering, that's it. There are moves that powerful acceleration lets you get away with, and they are all reckless, and often built on the assumption that only you have that acceleration. People are now using their high-torque EVs like this. You will never be in a collision close call caused by someone or something doing something unexpected, where the reaction of stepping on the accelerator is the action that saved the day. Can't deny that it could help run from a tsunami wave or fire or something.