3 ms·

What does not help, in my opinion, is that the wealthy people often have enough resources to optimize their taxes to a point where they pay much lower rate than

What does not help, in my opinion, is that the wealthy people often have enough resources to optimize their taxes to a point where they pay much lower rate than their fair share. While the others cannot afford to do that and pay the full rate. That in itself creates inequality. If a base rate that the society agrees on is e.g. n %, then, in my opinion, everyone should pay that n %. But in reality the poor people pay n % because they have no time to even think about optimizing it. As they often work around the clock to make ends meet. While the richer people hire professionals to take care of their taxes and optimize them to the extent that they pay significantly less than n %. And then there are super rich, some of whom, such as Donald Trump, pay almost no taxes at all. This is, in my opinion, wrong and significantly contributes to wealth inequality. And therefore I believe that it needs fixing.

gruez 20d ago
>While the richer people hire professionals to take care of their taxes and optimize them to the extent that they pay significantly less than n %. Source for this claim? All the claims I've seen involve treating unrealized gains as income, which is questionable methodology. For instance, if you founded a startup that then raised a few million dollars, at a valuation that values your shares at $1M, should your income be treated as $1M for that year, even if it didn't even hit your bank account and can't even spend it?
- pbasista 19d ago
  > Source for this claim? For example this article: https://www.propublica.org/article/billionaires-net-investment-income-tax https://www.propublica.org/article/billionaires-net-investme... The specific mechanism may vary by country. It often involves personal service companies through which the people are paid rather than being paid directly as employees. This usually means that they pay significantly less social insurance and health insurance than what they would have paid if they were regular employees. To clarify, I am using the term taxes in a very generic way where it covers not only the income taxes but also all kinds of fees collectable by the government. Including social insurance and health insurance.
- danny_codes 19d ago
  > For instance, if you founded a startup that then raised a few million dollars, at a valuation that values your shares at $1M, should your income be treated as $1M for that year, even if it didn't even hit your bank account and can't even spend it? Yes, though it requires some intelligent accounting. For instance, the ability for tax payers to defer certain obligations. However, the principle of "all income should be treated equal" is a necessary prerequisite to having a fair society. As it currently stands, the richest people don't pay much tax at all. Effective taxes on the billionaire class are like 8%-24%, less to way way less than the median tax payer. IMO it's helpful to think this through to the post-wealth-tax equilibrium. In such a world, financial services will adapt and develop mechanisms for handling these seemingly tricky tax situations. IMO focusing on the minutia of how this is going to work is not useful in evaluating the macro effects of the policy.

gruez 20d ago

>While the richer people hire professionals to take care of their taxes and optimize them to the extent that they pay significantly less than n %. Source for this claim? All the claims I've seen involve treating unrealized gains as income, which is questionable methodology. For instance, if you founded a startup that then raised a few million dollars, at a valuation that values your shares at $1M, should your income be treated as $1M for that year, even if it didn't even hit your bank account and can't even spend it?

pbasista 19d ago
> Source for this claim? For example this article: https://www.propublica.org/article/billionaires-net-investment-income-tax https://www.propublica.org/article/billionaires-net-investme... The specific mechanism may vary by country. It often involves personal service companies through which the people are paid rather than being paid directly as employees. This usually means that they pay significantly less social insurance and health insurance than what they would have paid if they were regular employees. To clarify, I am using the term taxes in a very generic way where it covers not only the income taxes but also all kinds of fees collectable by the government. Including social insurance and health insurance.
danny_codes 19d ago
> For instance, if you founded a startup that then raised a few million dollars, at a valuation that values your shares at $1M, should your income be treated as $1M for that year, even if it didn't even hit your bank account and can't even spend it? Yes, though it requires some intelligent accounting. For instance, the ability for tax payers to defer certain obligations. However, the principle of "all income should be treated equal" is a necessary prerequisite to having a fair society. As it currently stands, the richest people don't pay much tax at all. Effective taxes on the billionaire class are like 8%-24%, less to way way less than the median tax payer. IMO it's helpful to think this through to the post-wealth-tax equilibrium. In such a world, financial services will adapt and develop mechanisms for handling these seemingly tricky tax situations. IMO focusing on the minutia of how this is going to work is not useful in evaluating the macro effects of the policy.