5 ms·

Housing and healthcare are both mentioned and covered. > sharing a room with someone > medicaid in the top 10 CoL metros one can share a room with another pe

Housing and healthcare are both mentioned and covered. > sharing a room with someone > medicaid in the top 10 CoL metros one can share a room with another person for about $600 a month. I note that on your links the poverty wage is pretty close to the minimum wage. I'd contend that since contraceptives are widely available, including abortion in many places (or charities helping people get them in other states), we should expect the bottom quintile to not be adding to their expenses.

danaris 19d ago
And you think this should be considered normal? You think that this high a percentage of people should expect to be sharing a room not by choice, for the rest of their lives?
- maerF0x0 17d ago
  The context of the convo is the bottom quintile of earners. I do think people in the bottom quintile should not have kids (until they remedy their income issues), I do think people in the bottom quintile should take more serious measures to both preserve their cash flow, and to improve their income. I do think the bottom quintile should not be a "for life" sentence, and to the extent that I'm correct I've shared some paths for them to escape that. It's definitely worth addressing that the US could use additional social mobility and mixing, but I think we're far from "people cannot move classes if they want to" as well.
  - danaris 17d ago
    > I do think the bottom quintile should not be a "for life" sentence, and to the extent that I'm correct I've shared some paths for them to escape that. Skimming through your posts in this conversation, I really don't feel like you have. And I think one part of the problem is you don't seem to have acknowledged that, for the most part, people in this quintile do not have the tools to move out of it by choice, and this is increasingly true as inequality grows (so, for instance, if you were lucky enough—and I do mean "lucky"—to be or know someone who made it out 20, 30, 40 years ago, you cannot assume that similar options remain available today). When households are already spending literally every penny that comes in to afford rent, food, clothing, heat, medical care...which of those gets sacrificed on the off-chance that it might, some day, be enough to bootstrap themselves up out of that bottom quintile? No. That is not a realistic or compassionate way to view the situation at all. The bottom quintile is where many people will be their entire lives, and that is not going to change, so we as a society must ensure that it is a "place" where people can live healthy, comfortable lives, rather than a constantly-stressed squalid scramble.
  - moate 17d ago
    >>I do think people in the bottom quintile should not have kids I have some terrible news for you about birth rates and what this would do to society. >>until they remedy their income issues I'd like you to define "work", "necessary work for society to function", "low-skill jobs" and "value" (as it pertains to a human life). I have a feeling we have very different definitions and that leads us to very different conclusions about what people can do. >>I think we're far from "people cannot move classes if they want to" as well. Probably because you're not a social scientist/sociologist! We're talking about the bottom quintile, and it's very hard to become part of the upper crust, and it's very hard to leave American poverty[1,2]. But yea, some guy working a blue collar job can probably have kids that have white collar jobs. 1- https://harris.uchicago.edu/news-events/news/has-class-mobility-america-really-changed-new-research-finds-complicated-answer https://harris.uchicago.edu/news-events/news/has-class-mobil... 2- https://web.archive.org/web/20091003184000/http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2006/04/b1579981.html https://web.archive.org/web/20091003184000/http://www.americ...
mrgoldenbrown 19d ago
Have you ever lived on Medicaid? It can be a full time job just trying to get coverage and then find a doctor who will take it.
- maerF0x0 17d ago
  Probably pays better than minimum wage though.
joquarky 19d ago
You should try stepping out of that academic ivory tower occasionally and visit a run down bar/pub in a working-class town and talk to the people who make up most of the population.

danaris 19d ago

And you think this should be considered normal? You think that this high a percentage of people should expect to be sharing a room not by choice, for the rest of their lives?

maerF0x0 17d ago
The context of the convo is the bottom quintile of earners. I do think people in the bottom quintile should not have kids (until they remedy their income issues), I do think people in the bottom quintile should take more serious measures to both preserve their cash flow, and to improve their income. I do think the bottom quintile should not be a "for life" sentence, and to the extent that I'm correct I've shared some paths for them to escape that. It's definitely worth addressing that the US could use additional social mobility and mixing, but I think we're far from "people cannot move classes if they want to" as well.
- danaris 17d ago
  > I do think the bottom quintile should not be a "for life" sentence, and to the extent that I'm correct I've shared some paths for them to escape that. Skimming through your posts in this conversation, I really don't feel like you have. And I think one part of the problem is you don't seem to have acknowledged that, for the most part, people in this quintile do not have the tools to move out of it by choice, and this is increasingly true as inequality grows (so, for instance, if you were lucky enough—and I do mean "lucky"—to be or know someone who made it out 20, 30, 40 years ago, you cannot assume that similar options remain available today). When households are already spending literally every penny that comes in to afford rent, food, clothing, heat, medical care...which of those gets sacrificed on the off-chance that it might, some day, be enough to bootstrap themselves up out of that bottom quintile? No. That is not a realistic or compassionate way to view the situation at all. The bottom quintile is where many people will be their entire lives, and that is not going to change, so we as a society must ensure that it is a "place" where people can live healthy, comfortable lives, rather than a constantly-stressed squalid scramble.
- moate 17d ago
  >>I do think people in the bottom quintile should not have kids I have some terrible news for you about birth rates and what this would do to society. >>until they remedy their income issues I'd like you to define "work", "necessary work for society to function", "low-skill jobs" and "value" (as it pertains to a human life). I have a feeling we have very different definitions and that leads us to very different conclusions about what people can do. >>I think we're far from "people cannot move classes if they want to" as well. Probably because you're not a social scientist/sociologist! We're talking about the bottom quintile, and it's very hard to become part of the upper crust, and it's very hard to leave American poverty[1,2]. But yea, some guy working a blue collar job can probably have kids that have white collar jobs. 1- https://harris.uchicago.edu/news-events/news/has-class-mobility-america-really-changed-new-research-finds-complicated-answer https://harris.uchicago.edu/news-events/news/has-class-mobil... 2- https://web.archive.org/web/20091003184000/http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2006/04/b1579981.html https://web.archive.org/web/20091003184000/http://www.americ...

mrgoldenbrown 19d ago

Have you ever lived on Medicaid? It can be a full time job just trying to get coverage and then find a doctor who will take it.

maerF0x0 17d ago
Probably pays better than minimum wage though.

joquarky 19d ago

You should try stepping out of that academic ivory tower occasionally and visit a run down bar/pub in a working-class town and talk to the people who make up most of the population.