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I like your post a lot, in that you're describing how this doesn't say anything about anyone's chances really. However... > but also with poor people abusing t

by hvb2 20d ago

I like your post a lot, in that you're describing how this doesn't say anything about anyone's chances really. However... > but also with poor people abusing their democratic powers to unjustly take from others that which they have not earned How would they abuse their democratic powers? It's their decision to vote either way. So who says that's unjust? Certainly it's not abusing their democratic powers. Abusing of power happens on the other end of the spectrum, especially in the US thanks to citizens united.... Surely all those super PAC dollars don't buy any influence... As a result, the voice of a single rich person might be stronger than a whole quintile of the population. So chances are that they are unjustly given things that aren't theirs (i.e. advantageous contracts, laws that help them etcetera).

maerF0x0 20d ago
I hold, i guess as a basic principle, that tyranny of the majority is an unjust failure case of democratic systems. Fully agree Citizen's united has resulted in legalized corruption. But 2 wrongs do not make a right, ethically. There's nothing unjust about a rich person getting superior results through access to better resources though. Eg hiring a better tax accountant or financial advisor.
- Obscurity4340 19d ago
  Why should the tax code be structured in a way that a rich person can pay less in taxes than a poorer person or someone who cant access such expertise? Is it just that a rich person can buy admission for their dumbass kid to a prestigious university too? Please, tell us all about how they deserve preferential treatment and its right that shit always flows downhill, never uphill, that for those to whom much has been given, less will be expected
  - maerF0x0 18d ago
    While you might be talking about the exceptional cases where rich are paying a lower marginal rate than 1%-er W2 earners, for the basic tax brackets the more you earn you exponentially pay more than those who earn less. Fair tax is either Flat tax (We all pay 10% of our income) and user pays (You want infrastructure for your business? then pay for it).
    - Obscurity4340 18d ago
      Look, Warren Buffet should not pay less tax than his secretary. That is corruption of the tax code. Lets start with that. Also the nonsense where ultrarich can live off ultra low interest credit that effectively allows them to pay no or little income tax
      - maerF0x0 18d ago
        Fully agree he should not pay less tax % than his secretary, however I also would contend he should not pay more either. that is if his secretary is paying 20% so should he. I do think he should pay more absolute tax than his secretary... 20% of billions is lots more than 20% of $100k . What I'm talking about is progressive tax rates where the % goes up the more you make. I do not think Warren buffet should pay 25% of billions just because his income has more zeros than his secretary's . To the extent that people might say "Yeah but he uses more roads than the rest of us!", IMO that should be covered by user pays to tie the cost to the user. Gas tax is one such way this can be done. Business taxes are a bit crude but also could work.

by hvb2 20d ago

maerF0x0 20d ago

I hold, i guess as a basic principle, that tyranny of the majority is an unjust failure case of democratic systems. Fully agree Citizen's united has resulted in legalized corruption. But 2 wrongs do not make a right, ethically. There's nothing unjust about a rich person getting superior results through access to better resources though. Eg hiring a better tax accountant or financial advisor.

Obscurity4340 19d ago
Why should the tax code be structured in a way that a rich person can pay less in taxes than a poorer person or someone who cant access such expertise? Is it just that a rich person can buy admission for their dumbass kid to a prestigious university too? Please, tell us all about how they deserve preferential treatment and its right that shit always flows downhill, never uphill, that for those to whom much has been given, less will be expected
- maerF0x0 18d ago
  While you might be talking about the exceptional cases where rich are paying a lower marginal rate than 1%-er W2 earners, for the basic tax brackets the more you earn you exponentially pay more than those who earn less. Fair tax is either Flat tax (We all pay 10% of our income) and user pays (You want infrastructure for your business? then pay for it).
  - Obscurity4340 18d ago
    Look, Warren Buffet should not pay less tax than his secretary. That is corruption of the tax code. Lets start with that. Also the nonsense where ultrarich can live off ultra low interest credit that effectively allows them to pay no or little income tax
    - maerF0x0 18d ago
      Fully agree he should not pay less tax % than his secretary, however I also would contend he should not pay more either. that is if his secretary is paying 20% so should he. I do think he should pay more absolute tax than his secretary... 20% of billions is lots more than 20% of $100k . What I'm talking about is progressive tax rates where the % goes up the more you make. I do not think Warren buffet should pay 25% of billions just because his income has more zeros than his secretary's . To the extent that people might say "Yeah but he uses more roads than the rest of us!", IMO that should be covered by user pays to tie the cost to the user. Gas tax is one such way this can be done. Business taxes are a bit crude but also could work.