4 ms·

Im fully on the spectrum, but my first thought when I hear about stuff like this is what would be the moral implication of "recreational gang war" experience. I

Im fully on the spectrum, but my first thought when I hear about stuff like this is what would be the moral implication of "recreational gang war" experience. I.e you pay a lot of money, you get guns and armor, you go into gang territory, they shoot arrows at you, you defend yourself. Seems like you would have the right to use deadly force, but you would obviously be at a big advantage.

BoiledCabbage 20d ago
Do you have a desire to kill people?
- ActorNightly 20d ago
  Not at all. But the world we live in is pretty fucked up from that perspective. There are ex military contractor guys on youtube talking about their weapons and how they used a certain rifle to fight off invaders in the middle east. Nobody seems to care that the people on the other end of those bullets may have families. My interest in this is purely philosophical. If you have a what is effectively a lawless country, where native populace has the desire to kill you, to what extent could you engage with that in a moral framework?
jayGlow 20d ago
sounds vaguely similar to pirate hunting tours, put yourself in a dangerous situation where you can respond with deadly force. https://www.sail-world.com/USA/Russian-luxury-yachts-offer-pirate-hunting-cruises/58384 https://www.sail-world.com/USA/Russian-luxury-yachts-offer-p...
- Maxatar 20d ago
  Not that you've explicitly claimed it's authentic, but the very idea of a pirate hunting tour is a hoax that resurfaces across the Internet every so often in different forms: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/somali-pirate-luxury-cruise/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/somali-pirate-luxury-cruis...
bertylicious 19d ago
There is no moral or philosophical debate to be had here. It's morally wrong to do this and in my opinion that's clear as day. Putting yourself in a dangerous situation and provoking a "self-defense" scenario like that only serves as a thinly veiled excuse to murder people you consider inferior. Do you often have violent power fantasies? Do you find yourself daydreaming about them regularly?
- ActorNightly 19d ago
  Spare me the psycho analysis please, its pretty cringe. Explain to me how is this different from safari hunting trips where you can get attacked by a wild animal (often an agressive one thatvattacks villagers) and have to shoot it to defend yourself? And the argument of them being human versus safari trip featuring an animal is not something that is given, you have to show that their lives are worth more than the animal life
  - mitxela 19d ago
    They are both bad.
    - ActorNightly 19d ago
      I agree, but there is a market for the former, hence the question.
      - skeaker 19d ago
        There being a market for something does not justify its existence, at least morally.
        ActorNightly 19d ago
        There being a market for something doesn't make it morally right, but it highlights the demand aspect where someone is willing to pay money, which means that there is some level of it not being universally bad. In the case of a Safari, there is this moral middle ground - according to the countries policy, if an animal attacks a human, it generally is a candidate for being put down because of perceived danger to humans in the area, but on the flip side, its also morally wrong to kill an animal just because it does that. In the case of the gang warfare, you are doing a service by reducing the number of gang members and crime, but its also morally wrong to take someones life in offense for personal entertainment? (If its not clear, the difference in doing that in PNG versus any other country is because specifically of the lack of law enforcement that is the way of life there) Another hypothetical scenario - say you have a country where age of consent is low, and certain type of porn that is highly illegal in the rest of the world is freely available (which is not far from reality, scarily). You can't stop the creation or distribution of that porn without basically invading the country and changing its law. However, what if you used said porn and supplied to convicted pdf files in your home country so that they are less likely to exploit young kids irl? Is that morally wrong, or is it morally justified?

BoiledCabbage 20d ago

Do you have a desire to kill people?

ActorNightly 20d ago
Not at all. But the world we live in is pretty fucked up from that perspective. There are ex military contractor guys on youtube talking about their weapons and how they used a certain rifle to fight off invaders in the middle east. Nobody seems to care that the people on the other end of those bullets may have families. My interest in this is purely philosophical. If you have a what is effectively a lawless country, where native populace has the desire to kill you, to what extent could you engage with that in a moral framework?

jayGlow 20d ago

sounds vaguely similar to pirate hunting tours, put yourself in a dangerous situation where you can respond with deadly force. https://www.sail-world.com/USA/Russian-luxury-yachts-offer-pirate-hunting-cruises/58384 https://www.sail-world.com/USA/Russian-luxury-yachts-offer-p...

Maxatar 20d ago
Not that you've explicitly claimed it's authentic, but the very idea of a pirate hunting tour is a hoax that resurfaces across the Internet every so often in different forms: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/somali-pirate-luxury-cruise/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/somali-pirate-luxury-cruis...

bertylicious 19d ago

There is no moral or philosophical debate to be had here. It's morally wrong to do this and in my opinion that's clear as day. Putting yourself in a dangerous situation and provoking a "self-defense" scenario like that only serves as a thinly veiled excuse to murder people you consider inferior. Do you often have violent power fantasies? Do you find yourself daydreaming about them regularly?

ActorNightly 19d ago
Spare me the psycho analysis please, its pretty cringe. Explain to me how is this different from safari hunting trips where you can get attacked by a wild animal (often an agressive one thatvattacks villagers) and have to shoot it to defend yourself? And the argument of them being human versus safari trip featuring an animal is not something that is given, you have to show that their lives are worth more than the animal life
- mitxela 19d ago
  They are both bad.
  - ActorNightly 19d ago
    I agree, but there is a market for the former, hence the question.
    - skeaker 19d ago
      There being a market for something does not justify its existence, at least morally.
      - ActorNightly 19d ago
        There being a market for something doesn't make it morally right, but it highlights the demand aspect where someone is willing to pay money, which means that there is some level of it not being universally bad. In the case of a Safari, there is this moral middle ground - according to the countries policy, if an animal attacks a human, it generally is a candidate for being put down because of perceived danger to humans in the area, but on the flip side, its also morally wrong to kill an animal just because it does that. In the case of the gang warfare, you are doing a service by reducing the number of gang members and crime, but its also morally wrong to take someones life in offense for personal entertainment? (If its not clear, the difference in doing that in PNG versus any other country is because specifically of the lack of law enforcement that is the way of life there) Another hypothetical scenario - say you have a country where age of consent is low, and certain type of porn that is highly illegal in the rest of the world is freely available (which is not far from reality, scarily). You can't stop the creation or distribution of that porn without basically invading the country and changing its law. However, what if you used said porn and supplied to convicted pdf files in your home country so that they are less likely to exploit young kids irl? Is that morally wrong, or is it morally justified?