4 ms·

Here's the article in Germany about the incident: https://www.rtl.de/news/russische-spionage-rtl-reporter-undercover-als-wegwerfagenten-was-plant-der-russische-

• somenameforme 19d ago
  I'm not saying such claims are not being published, I'm saying they're likely false because they make about as much sense as a country blowing up its own pipeline. Espionage outside of war is an extremely sensitive issue, and were any country trivially baitable, they'd end up getting played hard. Not only would it eliminate deniability, but you also open up the door to major counter-intel operations and getting more insight into the operations, potentially on a massive scale, of an adversary. I suspect this is why there's endless stories, in pretty much every country, of dissidents handing over information to 'enemy states' who are in fact just domestic law enforcement. These people glow to everybody, and no foreign power's going to touch them.
  • Paradigma11 19d ago
    This has been extremely well documented. They are just paying some losers a few hundred euros to throw a molotow cocktail somewhere, that's it. As for the Germans, you know that they investigated the NS incident and are prosecuting the Ukrainian perpetrators. Now when the perpetrators are Russian, everything is fake of course.
    • somenameforme 18d ago
      Russia blowing up its own pipeline was also 'extremely well documented.' One of the many reasons that propaganda is self defeating is because when done effectively, as it has been with Ukraine, the people doing it eventually begin to be unable to tell what people really think due to self censorship and other issues. Have you really convinced everybody, or just made them smile and nod? Germany is now finding out the answer to that question, and I expect it's mere foreshadowing for much of the rest of Europe. The exact same happened with the Soviet Union. Gorbachev grew up during the Stalin years, alongside all of the joys that entails. He smiled and nodded all the way until he was at the top in power, at which point he almost immediately set about undermining the systems that had been in place.
      • Paradigma11 18d ago
        No, Russia being behind NS was never extremely well documented. There was lots of speculation and the German police did investigate and came to the conclusion that it had been the Ukrainians. Now the German police did investigate and came to the conclusion that it was the Russians. That's it.
        • deleted 16d ago
          [deleted]
        • somenameforme 16d ago
          By this standard, nothing is well documented. The Western propaganda machine was building up an extensive case against Russia. I suspect the reason it was dialed back was only because they overestimated the gullibility of the public - nobody believed them.
  • MentalM 19d ago
    > I'm saying they're likely false because they make about as much sense as a country blowing up its own pipeline That is still bizarre to me, how it was the media mainstream.
    • somenameforme 18d ago
      Operation Mockingbird. [1] Now let's bring that into modern times with the internet, digital communications, the complete degradation of values from government and business alike, and LLMs on top of it all now. It's why nothing makes any sense. Because it's just lies force fed on people alongside actions to encourage self censorship. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird