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The issue is getting developers to create apps for a new OS nobody uses (yet). And nobody will use it if they can't have their banking app and uber on it This

by dktp 18d ago

The issue is getting developers to create apps for a new OS nobody uses (yet). And nobody will use it if they can't have their banking app and uber on it This becomes even tougher if they go the Apple route and don't allow other phone manufacturers to use their OS. Alternatively, if they go down the Windows Phone route, we saw how that played out considering that Google _pays_ manufacturers to use Android Making OS is very hard, but getting necessary adoption is likely even harder

jmspamerton 18d ago
[dead]
ddarolfi 18d ago
I would be surprised if any AI forward OS is based around applications developed by other people. I imagine the OS will create the software you need. Thing's like banking apps are more difficult, but I imagine OpenAI could sort that out behind the scenes.
- macNchz 18d ago
  The idea of managing a consumer app API for which every client is auto-vibecoded to the user's preference sounds...fun. User: Hello Uber support? Yes, the app shows my driver is in the ocean off the west coast of Africa? And his ETA is -2147483648 minutes? Uber: Your app, your problem. User: Hello phonebrain, can you fix my Uber app? Phonebrain: You're absolutely right, I must have misunderstood the API docs. Squiggling... ... Shuffling ... Phonebrain: Error, you've hit your usage limit. Please wait 12 hours, or switch to pay-as-you-go app development mode. I cannot estimate how much it will cost to fix your Uber app.
  - fifilura 18d ago
    Why would they rate-limit fixing their own bugs? Seems counter-productive.
    - saalweachter 18d ago
      > switch to pay-as-you-go app development mode
      - fifilura 18d ago
        Still counter productive.
  - thewebguyd 18d ago
    And if it came to that, and that's how this OS worked, we'd see open APIs disappear real quick from all the popular services because of the support nightmare, and, services like Uber and others are going to want to maintain exclusivity with their first party app the moment vibe coding becomes that viable. APIs will get locked down, and we'll all be worse off for it. If an "AI Phone" looks to be an existential threat to third party app devs and services, except everyone to do everything they can kill said AI Phone to protect their own products.
    - ryandrake 18d ago
      Tech companies already have a history of shutting down APIs as soon as someone actually uses the API to make something that users like better than the official applications. They don't need AI-written clients as an excuse.
- 23sjeh 18d ago
  Lmao this delusional hand waving stuff is what economists do.
- p_j_w 18d ago
  Who wants to vibe code all of their phone apps? Vibe coding is cheaper than traditional core, but it certainly isn’t free.
theptip 18d ago
Honestly this might be less of a problem these days. If the model is that you build a good dev API and everyone points their agent at the software they need, then you don’t need the huge corporate investment in a full ecosystem. To be clear I don’t think we are fully ready for this to work. But directionally the trend looks significant.
- smith7018 18d ago
  That's unfortunately a rosy view of it. It might be easier to take source from one platform to another but that was never the issue; the issue is keeping it up to date with releases, testing it as often as other platforms, and handling user support tickets. The chicken and egg situation still applies here and companies aren't going to spend all the time and money on a new platform if users aren't asking for it.
  - spiderice 18d ago
    Every single thing you mentioned will be completely automated soon. 10 years max. Likely way less. That's my prediction at least.
    - smith7018 18d ago
      Then it comes down to cost of compute. Are companies going to add a multiplier on their compute costs to reach a platform with no users? It's still the same problem.
giancarlostoro 18d ago
On the other hand, I'm perfectly fine with a high quality phone OS that has only stock apps out of the box and high quality hardware, good camera, good battery life, reasonable camera app, drastically more curated app store for professional apps, I'd be okay with such a competitor, no more ad spam apps. I don't think I've seen a phone take over enterprise the way that the Blackberry once dominated, now its either iPhone or Android. You could argue that your executives are safer on a more locked down system. You'd 100% want to get everyone who makes an MFA app or service on your device on the other hand.
- thewebguyd 18d ago
  It's a bit of a different world today then when BlackBerry dominated. RIM essentially invented MDM which is what allowed it to take off in the enterprise, via BlackBerry Enterprise Server. Android and iOS didn't fully unseat them in the enterprise until third party MDMs were up to par and lock down the consumer devices just as effectively. So whatever new phone/OS that wants to take a stab at the enterprise, out of the gate, must support MDM profiles from all the major ones at least (InTune, ManageEngine, MaaS360, etc.). Then, as you said, all the MFA apps, at least should have Slack/Teams, office apps, etc. Not that it can't be done, but the cost of entry is much higher today if anyone wants to overcome the switching costs.
  - fragmede 18d ago
    The cost of entry is higher, but everyone has more money though, in this analogy. AI can vibe code all that out if someone seriously wanted to compete.
    - fidotron 18d ago
      Not only that, people have seriously memory holed the state the original iPhone launched in. No App Store, only web apps, not even 3G, only Yahoo push mail, and tied to AT&T - who were loathed, because in many places they just sucked. And it succeeded anyway. It was when Exchange push support came in the first major OS upgrade that corporate adoption exploded.
spiderice 18d ago
Obligatory RIP Windows Phone. I can't help but think about where it would have been today if they'd just stuck with it.
- Matl 18d ago
  Nokia might still be making phones and with a better OS (MeeGo) too.
fragmede 18d ago
Except that emulation/VM and the web makes it viable. What do you want to do with the thing? Banking and Uber are two specific, mass-market adoption criteria, but there's a reason Windows is still around and it's not because of those two things. The issue is business and money and who's paying for things in the age of AI? I'll use a new OS for fun, for free, in my spare time, but if I have to pay money instead of time, then I'm going to have to think about it. Either way though, the AI lab's gonna get my money in order to do stuff with it.

by dktp 18d ago

jmspamerton 18d ago

[dead]

ddarolfi 18d ago

I would be surprised if any AI forward OS is based around applications developed by other people. I imagine the OS will create the software you need. Thing's like banking apps are more difficult, but I imagine OpenAI could sort that out behind the scenes.

macNchz 18d ago
The idea of managing a consumer app API for which every client is auto-vibecoded to the user's preference sounds...fun. User: Hello Uber support? Yes, the app shows my driver is in the ocean off the west coast of Africa? And his ETA is -2147483648 minutes? Uber: Your app, your problem. User: Hello phonebrain, can you fix my Uber app? Phonebrain: You're absolutely right, I must have misunderstood the API docs. Squiggling... ... Shuffling ... Phonebrain: Error, you've hit your usage limit. Please wait 12 hours, or switch to pay-as-you-go app development mode. I cannot estimate how much it will cost to fix your Uber app.
- fifilura 18d ago
  Why would they rate-limit fixing their own bugs? Seems counter-productive.
  - saalweachter 18d ago
    > switch to pay-as-you-go app development mode
    - fifilura 18d ago
      Still counter productive.
- thewebguyd 18d ago
  And if it came to that, and that's how this OS worked, we'd see open APIs disappear real quick from all the popular services because of the support nightmare, and, services like Uber and others are going to want to maintain exclusivity with their first party app the moment vibe coding becomes that viable. APIs will get locked down, and we'll all be worse off for it. If an "AI Phone" looks to be an existential threat to third party app devs and services, except everyone to do everything they can kill said AI Phone to protect their own products.
  - ryandrake 18d ago
    Tech companies already have a history of shutting down APIs as soon as someone actually uses the API to make something that users like better than the official applications. They don't need AI-written clients as an excuse.
23sjeh 18d ago
Lmao this delusional hand waving stuff is what economists do.
p_j_w 18d ago
Who wants to vibe code all of their phone apps? Vibe coding is cheaper than traditional core, but it certainly isn’t free.

theptip 18d ago

Honestly this might be less of a problem these days. If the model is that you build a good dev API and everyone points their agent at the software they need, then you don’t need the huge corporate investment in a full ecosystem. To be clear I don’t think we are fully ready for this to work. But directionally the trend looks significant.

smith7018 18d ago
That's unfortunately a rosy view of it. It might be easier to take source from one platform to another but that was never the issue; the issue is keeping it up to date with releases, testing it as often as other platforms, and handling user support tickets. The chicken and egg situation still applies here and companies aren't going to spend all the time and money on a new platform if users aren't asking for it.
- spiderice 18d ago
  Every single thing you mentioned will be completely automated soon. 10 years max. Likely way less. That's my prediction at least.
  - smith7018 18d ago
    Then it comes down to cost of compute. Are companies going to add a multiplier on their compute costs to reach a platform with no users? It's still the same problem.

giancarlostoro 18d ago

On the other hand, I'm perfectly fine with a high quality phone OS that has only stock apps out of the box and high quality hardware, good camera, good battery life, reasonable camera app, drastically more curated app store for professional apps, I'd be okay with such a competitor, no more ad spam apps. I don't think I've seen a phone take over enterprise the way that the Blackberry once dominated, now its either iPhone or Android. You could argue that your executives are safer on a more locked down system. You'd 100% want to get everyone who makes an MFA app or service on your device on the other hand.

thewebguyd 18d ago
It's a bit of a different world today then when BlackBerry dominated. RIM essentially invented MDM which is what allowed it to take off in the enterprise, via BlackBerry Enterprise Server. Android and iOS didn't fully unseat them in the enterprise until third party MDMs were up to par and lock down the consumer devices just as effectively. So whatever new phone/OS that wants to take a stab at the enterprise, out of the gate, must support MDM profiles from all the major ones at least (InTune, ManageEngine, MaaS360, etc.). Then, as you said, all the MFA apps, at least should have Slack/Teams, office apps, etc. Not that it can't be done, but the cost of entry is much higher today if anyone wants to overcome the switching costs.
- fragmede 18d ago
  The cost of entry is higher, but everyone has more money though, in this analogy. AI can vibe code all that out if someone seriously wanted to compete.
  - fidotron 18d ago
    Not only that, people have seriously memory holed the state the original iPhone launched in. No App Store, only web apps, not even 3G, only Yahoo push mail, and tied to AT&T - who were loathed, because in many places they just sucked. And it succeeded anyway. It was when Exchange push support came in the first major OS upgrade that corporate adoption exploded.

spiderice 18d ago

Obligatory RIP Windows Phone. I can't help but think about where it would have been today if they'd just stuck with it.

Matl 18d ago
Nokia might still be making phones and with a better OS (MeeGo) too.

fragmede 18d ago

Except that emulation/VM and the web makes it viable. What do you want to do with the thing? Banking and Uber are two specific, mass-market adoption criteria, but there's a reason Windows is still around and it's not because of those two things. The issue is business and money and who's paying for things in the age of AI? I'll use a new OS for fun, for free, in my spare time, but if I have to pay money instead of time, then I'm going to have to think about it. Either way though, the AI lab's gonna get my money in order to do stuff with it.