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As a european, for the love of god, can we address any single of our concerns by either the national or the supranational government? It seems as if one ambigu

As a european, for the love of god, can we address any single of our concerns by either the national or the supranational government? It seems as if one ambiguates the other.

HPsquared 11d ago
It's useful because if an issue is difficult, both levels can disavow responsibility.
- HSO 11d ago
  in german there is a word for this Zuständigkeitspingpong competence table tennis
  - myself248 11d ago
    > in german there is a word for this I am not surprised. > competence table tennis Magnificent!
  - ramblerman 11d ago
    Sry to be pedantic (it is german after all) but, "responsibility table tennis" would be a better fit. Competence in english translates to the skill side of the word
raverbashing 11d ago
No, it seems governments can only ignore the concerns then complain the 'alt-right' parties get voted
- ajsnigrutin 11d ago
  ...or blame russia! (Some media literally blamed putin because people voted for afd in the recent state election in germany).
  - lucb1e 11d ago
    What would you have a troll army promote besides AfD narrative if your objective is to fuck with short-term well-being?
    - ajsnigrutin 8d ago
      AfD is a result of people wanting something and the government doing the opposite... this means that people are looking for an Alternative (intentionally capitalized here). People just want a nice cozy job, enough money to get an apartment/house, buy the basics they need and live in a safe environment. If you provide those, no one is looking for alternatives.... when one of your bigger companies announces letting go of 100k people in the next few years, when you need concrete blocks protecting your chistmas markets, when you're deciding between eating and paying for diesel for your car to get to work, then you're looking for Alternatives.
      - lucb1e 8d ago
        Check out what the party actually plans. It's the exact opposite of what those people that vote for it need. The demographic is based on uninformedness, correlating with lower incomes, marketed towards the group that feels disadvantaged because they feel that others around them have it better. This party is not going to advantage anyone, high or low income, but a step down in welfare hurts the most if you're already low income so best not choose them in that case. If you want "enough money to get an apartment/house, buy the basics they need", egalitarian Linke is the obvious choice, and the "and live in a safe environment" part is something literally everyone wants, hard to make a wrong choice there (though with their support for Russia, maybe AfD is questionable even on that front) > when one of your bigger companies announces letting go of 100k people in the next few years ...then you need social welfare the most? Linke is the biggest proponent of that. What is the logic here? > a result of people wanting something and the government doing the opposite This is perhaps the most mind-blowing part. For decades, the right wing government with Merkle at the head did very little for long-term good, so what's the opposite of that? Move further right!! This time it'll work for sure! Blame all the foreigners, inside and outside. Kick them out, reduce international collaboration and trade, and for a cherry on top, fuck the global climate even more than the compromise position previous governments were already pursuing. That'll fix all future problems No, obviously the opposite of leaving it all to the market and having strict immigration is to nationalize the things people actually need (as you say, things like housing) and have no concept of asylum (anyone can walk in and work here). Will that solve it? Maybe we need some middle ground? I'm not sure anyone has definitive answers to make a perfect world, but this nazi party is so far out there, saying it is "just an alternative" is like saying hitler was "just an option" that we could try and see how it works out. Yeah, people want something 'different' but what level of stupidity do you need to expect that voting for nazis is going to make things 'different and better' instead of 'different and worse'?
9865322689965 11d ago
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BoxOfRain 11d ago
> It seems as if one ambiguates the other. Interestingly this mechanism contributed a lot to Brexit in my opinion, whenever there was legislation the politicians wanted to enact but knew would be unpopular with the voters they'd blame the EU and wring their hands saying there was nothing to be done, while in the background gold-plating the legislation far beyond what the EU was even asking for. This also made it easy for populists to point to many absurd examples of the EU being comically bureaucratic, when a lot of the more nonsensical ones were literally domestic additions. When the referendum happened, the consequences were obvious to everyone. While no Brexiteer myself, I personally would want to see the European Parliament get a lot more powers and influence before I threw my wholehearted support behind rejoining. Half the problem with the EU is that it's seen as not particularly democratic as a place for legislation to originate, and giving the elected organ more power (including the power to propose legislation in its own right, and dismiss legislation proposed by the Commission with much more prejudice) would go a long way to addressing that I think. The Parliament needs to be more, well, parliamentary in how it functions.
- barrenko 9d ago
  Yeah, every time I try to look into an EU parliament detail, it ends up being bonker-ish for a lack of a better word.

As a european, for the love of god, can we address any single of our concerns by either the national or the supranational government? It seems as if one ambiguates the other.

HPsquared 11d ago

It's useful because if an issue is difficult, both levels can disavow responsibility.

HSO 11d ago
in german there is a word for this Zuständigkeitspingpong competence table tennis
- myself248 11d ago
  > in german there is a word for this I am not surprised. > competence table tennis Magnificent!
- ramblerman 11d ago
  Sry to be pedantic (it is german after all) but, "responsibility table tennis" would be a better fit. Competence in english translates to the skill side of the word

raverbashing 11d ago

No, it seems governments can only ignore the concerns then complain the 'alt-right' parties get voted

ajsnigrutin 11d ago
...or blame russia! (Some media literally blamed putin because people voted for afd in the recent state election in germany).
- lucb1e 11d ago
  What would you have a troll army promote besides AfD narrative if your objective is to fuck with short-term well-being?
  - ajsnigrutin 8d ago
    AfD is a result of people wanting something and the government doing the opposite... this means that people are looking for an Alternative (intentionally capitalized here). People just want a nice cozy job, enough money to get an apartment/house, buy the basics they need and live in a safe environment. If you provide those, no one is looking for alternatives.... when one of your bigger companies announces letting go of 100k people in the next few years, when you need concrete blocks protecting your chistmas markets, when you're deciding between eating and paying for diesel for your car to get to work, then you're looking for Alternatives.
    - lucb1e 8d ago
      Check out what the party actually plans. It's the exact opposite of what those people that vote for it need. The demographic is based on uninformedness, correlating with lower incomes, marketed towards the group that feels disadvantaged because they feel that others around them have it better. This party is not going to advantage anyone, high or low income, but a step down in welfare hurts the most if you're already low income so best not choose them in that case. If you want "enough money to get an apartment/house, buy the basics they need", egalitarian Linke is the obvious choice, and the "and live in a safe environment" part is something literally everyone wants, hard to make a wrong choice there (though with their support for Russia, maybe AfD is questionable even on that front) > when one of your bigger companies announces letting go of 100k people in the next few years ...then you need social welfare the most? Linke is the biggest proponent of that. What is the logic here? > a result of people wanting something and the government doing the opposite This is perhaps the most mind-blowing part. For decades, the right wing government with Merkle at the head did very little for long-term good, so what's the opposite of that? Move further right!! This time it'll work for sure! Blame all the foreigners, inside and outside. Kick them out, reduce international collaboration and trade, and for a cherry on top, fuck the global climate even more than the compromise position previous governments were already pursuing. That'll fix all future problems No, obviously the opposite of leaving it all to the market and having strict immigration is to nationalize the things people actually need (as you say, things like housing) and have no concept of asylum (anyone can walk in and work here). Will that solve it? Maybe we need some middle ground? I'm not sure anyone has definitive answers to make a perfect world, but this nazi party is so far out there, saying it is "just an alternative" is like saying hitler was "just an option" that we could try and see how it works out. Yeah, people want something 'different' but what level of stupidity do you need to expect that voting for nazis is going to make things 'different and better' instead of 'different and worse'?

9865322689965 11d ago

[dead]

BoxOfRain 11d ago

> It seems as if one ambiguates the other. Interestingly this mechanism contributed a lot to Brexit in my opinion, whenever there was legislation the politicians wanted to enact but knew would be unpopular with the voters they'd blame the EU and wring their hands saying there was nothing to be done, while in the background gold-plating the legislation far beyond what the EU was even asking for. This also made it easy for populists to point to many absurd examples of the EU being comically bureaucratic, when a lot of the more nonsensical ones were literally domestic additions. When the referendum happened, the consequences were obvious to everyone. While no Brexiteer myself, I personally would want to see the European Parliament get a lot more powers and influence before I threw my wholehearted support behind rejoining. Half the problem with the EU is that it's seen as not particularly democratic as a place for legislation to originate, and giving the elected organ more power (including the power to propose legislation in its own right, and dismiss legislation proposed by the Commission with much more prejudice) would go a long way to addressing that I think. The Parliament needs to be more, well, parliamentary in how it functions.

barrenko 9d ago
Yeah, every time I try to look into an EU parliament detail, it ends up being bonker-ish for a lack of a better word.