3 ms·

A jack is a flag flown from a jackstaff, wot is found at the back of a ship or boat. The UK flag is called the Union Flag (it's a flag and it is a union of var

by gerdesj 12d ago

A jack is a flag flown from a jackstaff, wot is found at the back of a ship or boat. The UK flag is called the Union Flag (it's a flag and it is a union of various flags and possibly nations too!) but let's face it, given how many people think its called the Union Jack, it doesn't really matter. If your flag pole at home is somewhat canted then I think you can call it a jackstaff, with a similar justification to the Royal Navy managing to designate their shore bases as ships. For example just up the road is HMS Heron (His Majesty's Ship: Heron). The Union Flag/Jack is only the flag of the UK by convention and not law. It's a bit wooley, just like our Constitution but it still all works. My point is that whilst I do enjoy this encoding scheme and it is jolly clever, reality is way more complicated. The UK's flag is pretty complicated but not alone. I'm pretty sure several flags have tassels, which I suppose strays into the coat of arms territory. How hard do you want to squint!

xp84 12d ago
I enjoyed that the Union Flag just gets its own 'preset' - the fact that it's still presiding over a large handful of others makes it a very efficient decision compared to trying to tease out all the necessary shapes to reconstruct it. I'll admit, I was hoping for some geometric approximations for countries like Brazil, though.
- gerdesj 12d ago
  This scheme is OK but not OK. You note the Brazil flag and that's a great example along with the likes of the UK and the US too. The Brazilian flag is nominally "quite" simple: Green with a yellow/gold parallelogram/rhombus with a blue circle ... then there is the white band and stars. Absolute nightmare to classify. I thought the UK flag was a bit of a challenge and I remember an art class 50 odd years ago, trying to paint the bloody thing. Little did I know at the time about how Aussies and Kiwi worriers and co would fare! Won't someone think of Hawaiians: their state flag is not something you depict for a quick laugh! I suppose the US flag is arguably the hardest to depict: Those stars would take ages to draw/paint/dribble. I imagine kids get a box of stars to stick on their depictions in art classes in the US.
  - xp84 11d ago
    What's really hard, together with the quantity of them is that they're white! I haven't actually seen many star stickers used, but agree that's a great idea. Often, when the Flag's depicted in kids' art, paints or paint pens are used, since 'negative space' stars would take forever to do with a blue marker or pencil but is quicker to paint on top of blue. And there's a great deal of artistic license used in terms of their size and color. Or on a small flag, just a lot of tiny white dots!
    - gerdesj 11d ago
      The Union flag is a bit of a pain! Notice how there are thick and thin white stripes. When I was a lad, it was a given that in an emergency you would fly your flag upside down. 50 odd years later, I note that hardly any Brit owns or has ever owned a Union flag. Not only that but how many people would know if it is upside down! The right way up is thick white stripe on the top edge, nearest to the pole.
Theodores 11d ago
My Union Jack (in SVG) is coded to reflect the union of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. I live in Scotland where it is commonly known that the English flag is plastered over the Scottish Saltire, and they don't even get the same colour blue in each. There are different aspect ratios too, plus there is the 'jack'. I don't care for AI but I do like SVG to be human readable to some extent, although I do like oklch colours, which are not something I consider 'human readable'. Here I have the Scottish flag, the English one, a 'GB' flag which slaps one on top of the other with those Irish extras, to make a UK 'Jack' that waves badly because SVG filters are not something I am good at. Excuse the SVG code: <defs id="flags"> <symbol id="england" fill="white" clip-path="url(#flag-clip-two-by-one)"> <title>England</title> <use href="#bounding-square"/> <g id="st-george-cross" stroke="oklch(0.5472 0.242 22.16)" stroke-width="12"> <g id="england-flag-cross" transform="translate(60 60)"> <line id="england-flag-line" x1="-60" x2="60"/> <use href="#england-flag-line" transform="rotate(90)"/> </g> </g> </symbol> <symbol id="gb" clip-path="url(#flag-clip-two-by-one)"> <title>United Kingdom</title> <use fill="oklch(0.2873 0.139 259.18)" href="#saltire"/> <g id="st-patrick-lhs" stroke-linecap="square"> <line id="st-patrick-red-line" x2="60" y1="32" y2="62" stroke="oklch(0.5472 0.242 22.16)" stroke-width="4"/> <use href="#st-patrick-red-line" transform="translate(0 124) scale(1 -1)"/> </g> <use href="#st-patrick-lhs" transform="translate(120 -4) scale(-1 1)"/> <use stroke="white" stroke-width="20" href="#england-flag-cross"/> <use href="#st-george-cross"/> </symbol> <symbol id="scotland"> <title>Scotland</title> <g fill="oklch(0.5079 0.1766 247.88)" clip-path="url(#flag-clip-two-by-one)"> <g id="saltire"> <use href="#bounding-square"/> <g transform="translate(60 60)"> <line id="saltire-white" x1="-60" x2="60" y1="-30" y2="30" stroke="white" stroke-width="12"/> <use href="#saltire-white" transform="scale(-1 1)"/> </g> </g> </g> </symbol> <symbol id="union-jack"> <title>Union Jack</title> <defs> <filter id="flag-wave"> <feTurbulence type="fractalNoise" baseFrequency="0.0025" numOctaves="3" result="flag-wave-fractal-noise" seed="42"> <animate attributeName="baseFrequency" values="0.0025;0.01;0.002;0.005;0.004;0.0025" dur="12s" repeatCount="indefinite"/> </feTurbulence> <feDisplacementMap xChannelSelector="R" yChannelSelector="B" in="SourceGraphic" in2="flag-wave-fractal-noise" result="flag-wave-fractal-source" scale="50"/> <feGaussianBlur in="flag-wave-fractal-source" stdDeviation="0.4"/> <feMorphology operator="dilate" radius="0.5"/> </filter> <radialGradient id="radial-glow"> <stop offset="0%" stop-color="white"/> <stop offset="100%" stop-color="grey"/> </radialGradient> <linearGradient id="flagpole-gradient"> <stop offset="0%" stop-color="grey"/> <stop offset="55%" stop-color="white"/> <stop offset="90%" stop-color="darkgrey"/> </linearGradient> </defs> <g transform="rotate(10)translate(25,10)"> <use href="#gb" transform="translate(7, -10)scale(0.75)" filter="url(#flag-wave)"/> <circle r="3.5" fill="url(#radial-glow)" stroke="none"/> <rect y="2.5" x="-2.5" width="5" height="120" stroke="none" fill="url(#flagpole-gradient)"/> </g> </symbol> </defs>

by gerdesj 12d ago

xp84 12d ago

I enjoyed that the Union Flag just gets its own 'preset' - the fact that it's still presiding over a large handful of others makes it a very efficient decision compared to trying to tease out all the necessary shapes to reconstruct it. I'll admit, I was hoping for some geometric approximations for countries like Brazil, though.

gerdesj 12d ago
This scheme is OK but not OK. You note the Brazil flag and that's a great example along with the likes of the UK and the US too. The Brazilian flag is nominally "quite" simple: Green with a yellow/gold parallelogram/rhombus with a blue circle ... then there is the white band and stars. Absolute nightmare to classify. I thought the UK flag was a bit of a challenge and I remember an art class 50 odd years ago, trying to paint the bloody thing. Little did I know at the time about how Aussies and Kiwi worriers and co would fare! Won't someone think of Hawaiians: their state flag is not something you depict for a quick laugh! I suppose the US flag is arguably the hardest to depict: Those stars would take ages to draw/paint/dribble. I imagine kids get a box of stars to stick on their depictions in art classes in the US.
- xp84 11d ago
  What's really hard, together with the quantity of them is that they're white! I haven't actually seen many star stickers used, but agree that's a great idea. Often, when the Flag's depicted in kids' art, paints or paint pens are used, since 'negative space' stars would take forever to do with a blue marker or pencil but is quicker to paint on top of blue. And there's a great deal of artistic license used in terms of their size and color. Or on a small flag, just a lot of tiny white dots!
  - gerdesj 11d ago
    The Union flag is a bit of a pain! Notice how there are thick and thin white stripes. When I was a lad, it was a given that in an emergency you would fly your flag upside down. 50 odd years later, I note that hardly any Brit owns or has ever owned a Union flag. Not only that but how many people would know if it is upside down! The right way up is thick white stripe on the top edge, nearest to the pole.

Theodores 11d ago

My Union Jack (in SVG) is coded to reflect the union of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. I live in Scotland where it is commonly known that the English flag is plastered over the Scottish Saltire, and they don't even get the same colour blue in each. There are different aspect ratios too, plus there is the 'jack'. I don't care for AI but I do like SVG to be human readable to some extent, although I do like oklch colours, which are not something I consider 'human readable'. Here I have the Scottish flag, the English one, a 'GB' flag which slaps one on top of the other with those Irish extras, to make a UK 'Jack' that waves badly because SVG filters are not something I am good at. Excuse the SVG code: <defs id="flags"> <symbol id="england" fill="white" clip-path="url(#flag-clip-two-by-one)"> <title>England</title> <use href="#bounding-square"/> <g id="st-george-cross" stroke="oklch(0.5472 0.242 22.16)" stroke-width="12"> <g id="england-flag-cross" transform="translate(60 60)"> <line id="england-flag-line" x1="-60" x2="60"/> <use href="#england-flag-line" transform="rotate(90)"/> </g> </g> </symbol> <symbol id="gb" clip-path="url(#flag-clip-two-by-one)"> <title>United Kingdom</title> <use fill="oklch(0.2873 0.139 259.18)" href="#saltire"/> <g id="st-patrick-lhs" stroke-linecap="square"> <line id="st-patrick-red-line" x2="60" y1="32" y2="62" stroke="oklch(0.5472 0.242 22.16)" stroke-width="4"/> <use href="#st-patrick-red-line" transform="translate(0 124) scale(1 -1)"/> </g> <use href="#st-patrick-lhs" transform="translate(120 -4) scale(-1 1)"/> <use stroke="white" stroke-width="20" href="#england-flag-cross"/> <use href="#st-george-cross"/> </symbol> <symbol id="scotland"> <title>Scotland</title> <g fill="oklch(0.5079 0.1766 247.88)" clip-path="url(#flag-clip-two-by-one)"> <g id="saltire"> <use href="#bounding-square"/> <g transform="translate(60 60)"> <line id="saltire-white" x1="-60" x2="60" y1="-30" y2="30" stroke="white" stroke-width="12"/> <use href="#saltire-white" transform="scale(-1 1)"/> </g> </g> </g> </symbol> <symbol id="union-jack"> <title>Union Jack</title> <defs> <filter id="flag-wave"> <feTurbulence type="fractalNoise" baseFrequency="0.0025" numOctaves="3" result="flag-wave-fractal-noise" seed="42"> <animate attributeName="baseFrequency" values="0.0025;0.01;0.002;0.005;0.004;0.0025" dur="12s" repeatCount="indefinite"/> </feTurbulence> <feDisplacementMap xChannelSelector="R" yChannelSelector="B" in="SourceGraphic" in2="flag-wave-fractal-noise" result="flag-wave-fractal-source" scale="50"/> <feGaussianBlur in="flag-wave-fractal-source" stdDeviation="0.4"/> <feMorphology operator="dilate" radius="0.5"/> </filter> <radialGradient id="radial-glow"> <stop offset="0%" stop-color="white"/> <stop offset="100%" stop-color="grey"/> </radialGradient> <linearGradient id="flagpole-gradient"> <stop offset="0%" stop-color="grey"/> <stop offset="55%" stop-color="white"/> <stop offset="90%" stop-color="darkgrey"/> </linearGradient> </defs> <g transform="rotate(10)translate(25,10)"> <use href="#gb" transform="translate(7, -10)scale(0.75)" filter="url(#flag-wave)"/> <circle r="3.5" fill="url(#radial-glow)" stroke="none"/> <rect y="2.5" x="-2.5" width="5" height="120" stroke="none" fill="url(#flagpole-gradient)"/> </g> </symbol> </defs>