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This isn’t a good comparison because a better comparison would be the SF Bay Area (the metro) instead of just SF. Also my point is that the Canadian cost of liv

This isn’t a good comparison because a better comparison would be the SF Bay Area (the metro) instead of just SF. Also my point is that the Canadian cost of living is comparable to the US while simultaneously having salaries that are a fraction of the US. I believe your nurses are also going south for the same reason though a few places like Vancouver have started to subsidize their housing.

bigmadshoe 12d ago
Then we should compare to the Vancouver metro area, which is also cheaper. I'm not denying that the cost of living to salary ratio is better in the US. But it is simply false to say that the cost of living in cities like Vancouver (widely considered the most expensive in Canada) is the same as SF or NYC. Rent in SF is roughly double that of Vancouver, which itself has the most expensive rent in Canada.
- chaostheory 12d ago
  The Vancouver metro real estate and rent are roughly the same as the SF Bay Area while having a fraction of the pay I only know this because we thought of relocating to Canada
  - bigmadshoe 12d ago
    I was just in Vancouver staying with some friends who had a 3 bedroom in a nice neighborhood for $3700CAD ($2700USD) per month. I know several people in SF paying that for a studio. Beyond anecdotes, various comparison websites have rent in SF at around 100% more than Vancouver. Obviously salaries are lower in Canada and your disposable income can very likely be lower living there if you're in tech.
    - chaostheory 12d ago
      For the nth time, most people who work in Silicon Valley, even the ones who work in SF, do not live in SF where the prices are more comparable to Vancouver. This is one of the major reasons we didn't move to Canada.
      - bigmadshoe 11d ago
        And not everyone who works in Vancouver lives in the city of Vancouver either. There are 10 or so other cities within commuting distance. A fair comparison would compare areas outside of SF with areas outside of Vancouver. There are obviously some outliers like Oakland, but on average you would expect to pay 50%-100% more in rent in the Bay Area than in the Vancouver area. There is a lot of data available online that you can find very easily. Zillow for example, regarding rent for a one bedroom: SF average rent: $4,440 USD [1] vs. Vancouver average rent: $2,500USD [2] Mountain view average rent: $3,395USD [3] vs Burnaby average rent: $1,989USD [4] Union City average rent: $2400USD [5] vs Surrey average rent: $1689USD [6] [1] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/san-francisco-ca/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/san-fran... [2] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/vancouver-bc/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/vancouve... [3] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/mountain-view-ca/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/mountain... [4] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/burnaby-bc/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/burnaby-... [5] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/union-city-ca/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/union-ci... [6] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/surrey-bc/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/surrey-b...
        chaostheory 11d ago
        1. Your comparisons aren’t that great. Burnaby’s twin is Oakland and not Mountain view. 2. You’re ignoring the option of buying homes which is impossible for Canadian vancouver salaries but still possible with American salaries in the SF Bay Area
        bigmadshoe 10d ago
        Again, I am not making comparisons adjusted to salaries. I'm just proving that claims that the cost of living is "just as high or even higher than the US" (not adjusting for salary) are false. Simply looking around Vancouver on zillow proves this to be obvious. For example, I found multiple 3b2b houses with backyards for under $3kUSD in nice areas walking distance from central Vancouver, which is literally impossible in SF. Otherwise, as I already stated, we agree that it is almost always better from an economic perspective to live in San Francisco as an engineer, given the vastly higher salaries. NOTE: I'm specifically responding to your claim that "the cost of living in Canada is just as high or even higher than the US", in the context of HCOL areas where tech workers typically reside. Honestly I don't know what can convince you, so maybe we can just agree to disagree.

bigmadshoe 12d ago

Then we should compare to the Vancouver metro area, which is also cheaper. I'm not denying that the cost of living to salary ratio is better in the US. But it is simply false to say that the cost of living in cities like Vancouver (widely considered the most expensive in Canada) is the same as SF or NYC. Rent in SF is roughly double that of Vancouver, which itself has the most expensive rent in Canada.

chaostheory 12d ago
The Vancouver metro real estate and rent are roughly the same as the SF Bay Area while having a fraction of the pay I only know this because we thought of relocating to Canada
- bigmadshoe 12d ago
  I was just in Vancouver staying with some friends who had a 3 bedroom in a nice neighborhood for $3700CAD ($2700USD) per month. I know several people in SF paying that for a studio. Beyond anecdotes, various comparison websites have rent in SF at around 100% more than Vancouver. Obviously salaries are lower in Canada and your disposable income can very likely be lower living there if you're in tech.
  - chaostheory 12d ago
    For the nth time, most people who work in Silicon Valley, even the ones who work in SF, do not live in SF where the prices are more comparable to Vancouver. This is one of the major reasons we didn't move to Canada.
    - bigmadshoe 11d ago
      And not everyone who works in Vancouver lives in the city of Vancouver either. There are 10 or so other cities within commuting distance. A fair comparison would compare areas outside of SF with areas outside of Vancouver. There are obviously some outliers like Oakland, but on average you would expect to pay 50%-100% more in rent in the Bay Area than in the Vancouver area. There is a lot of data available online that you can find very easily. Zillow for example, regarding rent for a one bedroom: SF average rent: $4,440 USD [1] vs. Vancouver average rent: $2,500USD [2] Mountain view average rent: $3,395USD [3] vs Burnaby average rent: $1,989USD [4] Union City average rent: $2400USD [5] vs Surrey average rent: $1689USD [6] [1] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/san-francisco-ca/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/san-fran... [2] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/vancouver-bc/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/vancouve... [3] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/mountain-view-ca/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/mountain... [4] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/burnaby-bc/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/burnaby-... [5] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/union-city-ca/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/union-ci... [6] https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/surrey-bc/?bedrooms=1 https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/surrey-b...
      - chaostheory 11d ago
        1. Your comparisons aren’t that great. Burnaby’s twin is Oakland and not Mountain view. 2. You’re ignoring the option of buying homes which is impossible for Canadian vancouver salaries but still possible with American salaries in the SF Bay Area
        bigmadshoe 10d ago
        Again, I am not making comparisons adjusted to salaries. I'm just proving that claims that the cost of living is "just as high or even higher than the US" (not adjusting for salary) are false. Simply looking around Vancouver on zillow proves this to be obvious. For example, I found multiple 3b2b houses with backyards for under $3kUSD in nice areas walking distance from central Vancouver, which is literally impossible in SF. Otherwise, as I already stated, we agree that it is almost always better from an economic perspective to live in San Francisco as an engineer, given the vastly higher salaries. NOTE: I'm specifically responding to your claim that "the cost of living in Canada is just as high or even higher than the US", in the context of HCOL areas where tech workers typically reside. Honestly I don't know what can convince you, so maybe we can just agree to disagree.