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Not because this is also my opinion (I have a lot of opinions that people don't share, and I completely don't care, believe me!), but for deeper reasons, I'd lo

by pino83 12d ago

Not because this is also my opinion (I have a lot of opinions that people don't share, and I completely don't care, believe me!), but for deeper reasons, I'd love to understand why this is so unpopular, although it's absolutely what every sane person would do in everyday cases. My only explanation would be to imagine all down-voters as chain smokers when they get involved into discussions whether smoking is a good thing.

kijashdkujdfhas 12d ago
People don't like to be reminded that they're hanging out at the Nazi Bar. Standing outside and looking through the Nazi Bar's window is still pretty much hanging out at the Nazi Bar. It still brings traffic and attention to their establishment. Sure, it's not buying drinks from the Nazis, and that is an improvement over being inside and giving Nazis your money and engagement directly. But it's still hanging out at the Nazi Bar.
- pino83 12d ago
  Yes, I like the analogy. Even if you don't agree with "Nazi", it makes the illustration quite obvious: There is a bar that scares you off so much that you wouldn't even go in. So there must be something fundamentally wrong with it. It's not just not your favorite beer, but you absolutely avoid even to enter. There must be a strong reason for that, right? What people are then important enough to watch through the windows? I mean, at first, you just make a fool of yourself. Just imagine the analogy. That's exactly xcancel and friends, right? And then, don't forget: These people explicitly do not share your view in a matter fundamental and important enough for you to not enter the bar. Are they friends? I can't imagine friendships with these differences really need that deep devotion. Are they politicians? Maybe there are enough media around you that already preprocess the conversations at the Nazi bar for you? Wider community (around your job, hobby, ...)? That's probably the most challenging one. But still, wouldn't it be definitely the goal to push them to better places? I know it's not a matter of a day or two, but why couldn't we at least agree on that goal, and then start acting in some way? btw: This is not specific to X or Musk imho. There are other networks out there that aren't in control of such a madman today, but they share a lot of problematic properties.
  - natch 12d ago
    Very well reasoned and it fits a long evolved pattern but what you’re describing fits the mass sociopathic behavior called shunning, as engaged in by some religions like JW if you need a neutral example to think about. It is in no way good for society or for individuals in the long term.
    - kijashdkujdfhas 12d ago
      Nazis should be shunned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
      - natch 11d ago
        Actual Nazis, sure. But don't believe everything you think.
        SirHackalot 9d ago
        Yeah, actual Nazis who commit administrative murder of a non-zero number of people in Africa who died from preventable diseases due to the DOGE USAID cuts. Some might call it administrative eugenics. I heard the guy who did that also threw a pretty obvious gesture that shows support for that ideology. I choose to believe my eyes and my functioning brain, thanks.
        natch 7d ago
        This has been debunked.
        SirHackalot 6d ago
        Sure, cringelord. You even talk like Elon. Maybe I found another Elon alt account. Debunked by whom? The ministry of truth? Are we not supposed to do basic cause and effect inference? And which part has been debunked? The salute, or the austerity and deaths due to USAID cuts? The salute’s been debunked by the emperor’s groveling subjects who proclaim loudly that his garments are, indeed, astonishing! No surprise there, their retirement is at stake. Seriously, are you being paid to shill for Tesla? Nobody is this dumb.
- immibis2 12d ago
  > and that is an improvement over being inside and giving Nazis your money and engagement directly If you convert someone who was buying drinks into someone who only looks through the window, the world gets less Nazi. If you convert someone who was passing by into someone who looks through the window, the world gets more Nazi. And we see both classes of people in this thread - people who think each of those directions is dominant.

by pino83 12d ago

kijashdkujdfhas 12d ago

People don't like to be reminded that they're hanging out at the Nazi Bar. Standing outside and looking through the Nazi Bar's window is still pretty much hanging out at the Nazi Bar. It still brings traffic and attention to their establishment. Sure, it's not buying drinks from the Nazis, and that is an improvement over being inside and giving Nazis your money and engagement directly. But it's still hanging out at the Nazi Bar.

pino83 12d ago
Yes, I like the analogy. Even if you don't agree with "Nazi", it makes the illustration quite obvious: There is a bar that scares you off so much that you wouldn't even go in. So there must be something fundamentally wrong with it. It's not just not your favorite beer, but you absolutely avoid even to enter. There must be a strong reason for that, right? What people are then important enough to watch through the windows? I mean, at first, you just make a fool of yourself. Just imagine the analogy. That's exactly xcancel and friends, right? And then, don't forget: These people explicitly do not share your view in a matter fundamental and important enough for you to not enter the bar. Are they friends? I can't imagine friendships with these differences really need that deep devotion. Are they politicians? Maybe there are enough media around you that already preprocess the conversations at the Nazi bar for you? Wider community (around your job, hobby, ...)? That's probably the most challenging one. But still, wouldn't it be definitely the goal to push them to better places? I know it's not a matter of a day or two, but why couldn't we at least agree on that goal, and then start acting in some way? btw: This is not specific to X or Musk imho. There are other networks out there that aren't in control of such a madman today, but they share a lot of problematic properties.
- natch 12d ago
  Very well reasoned and it fits a long evolved pattern but what you’re describing fits the mass sociopathic behavior called shunning, as engaged in by some religions like JW if you need a neutral example to think about. It is in no way good for society or for individuals in the long term.
  - kijashdkujdfhas 12d ago
    Nazis should be shunned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
    - natch 11d ago
      Actual Nazis, sure. But don't believe everything you think.
      - SirHackalot 9d ago
        Yeah, actual Nazis who commit administrative murder of a non-zero number of people in Africa who died from preventable diseases due to the DOGE USAID cuts. Some might call it administrative eugenics. I heard the guy who did that also threw a pretty obvious gesture that shows support for that ideology. I choose to believe my eyes and my functioning brain, thanks.
        natch 7d ago
        This has been debunked.
        SirHackalot 6d ago
        Sure, cringelord. You even talk like Elon. Maybe I found another Elon alt account. Debunked by whom? The ministry of truth? Are we not supposed to do basic cause and effect inference? And which part has been debunked? The salute, or the austerity and deaths due to USAID cuts? The salute’s been debunked by the emperor’s groveling subjects who proclaim loudly that his garments are, indeed, astonishing! No surprise there, their retirement is at stake. Seriously, are you being paid to shill for Tesla? Nobody is this dumb.
immibis2 12d ago
> and that is an improvement over being inside and giving Nazis your money and engagement directly If you convert someone who was buying drinks into someone who only looks through the window, the world gets less Nazi. If you convert someone who was passing by into someone who looks through the window, the world gets more Nazi. And we see both classes of people in this thread - people who think each of those directions is dominant.