4 ms·

Also a self-hosted server with opinionated defaults. The year is 2026, and most users expect persistent history without having to add mod_mam themselves. Discor

Also a self-hosted server with opinionated defaults. The year is 2026, and most users expect persistent history without having to add mod_mam themselves. Discord won from zero because it's IRC with history. I cannot believe that chat history, mentions, etc. is still not settled.

pona-a 19d ago
This is effectively settled. Every client worth using has standardized on certain extensions, and there are server capability testers for it [0]. There are still a LOT of things very much up in the air, such as message deletion, which work inconsistently from client to client, but message history is not it. [0] https://compliance.conversations.im/ https://compliance.conversations.im/
- tcfhgj 19d ago
  call me out if I am wrong, but isn't history dependent on the server of the chatroom creator, and doesn't every server have different history settings and does it not handle encrypted messages fully?
  - MattJ100 19d ago
    Yes, XMPP server implementations typically give admins full control over data retention. Different use cases demand different settings, so it's quite adaptable to whatever needs you have. I'm not sure what you mean by not handling encrypted messages fully, it handles encrypted messages fine.
    - tcfhgj 19d ago
      > so it's quite adaptable to whatever needs you have. as a user you cannot, even if you self host, because you are not the one controlling message storage > I'm not sure what you mean by not handling encrypted messages fully, it handles encrypted messages fine. you can load encrypted messages (including keys if they are needed to decrypt them if necessary) using a fresh login such that you can read them again?
spystath 19d ago
I think Snikket [0] is supposed to do that? They even offer a turnkey hosted version. [0] https://snikket.org/start/ https://snikket.org/start/
- Gud 19d ago
  This may sound stupid to a predominantly GNU/Linux audience, but as a FreeBSD user(and Linux user!), when a daemon is not available for FreeBSD, it's a very bad sign. "Because Snikket is designed natively as a tightly integrated suite of Docker containers built around the Prosody XMPP server, running it natively on FreeBSD is complex." Holy shit
  - MattJ100 19d ago
    FWIW I'm the founder of both the Snikket and Prosody projects. If you're a FreeBSD user, or even an experienced hands-on Linux sysadmin, I'd probably recommend going with Prosody, unless docker is your thing. Snikket aimed to fill the gap for people who wanted an "out of the box" XMPP distribution kind of thing, and it's good at that. But shipping a bunch of software components with opinionated configurations doesn't really mesh well with distribution-level package management, and only really works with a container kind of ecosystem. Both routes exist and are equally viable. Prosody has ports available for all the popular BSDs, and installing it should be a breeze. Just be prepared to then also set up a TURN server if you want calls, and potentially some web server stuff to if you want some of those features. After installing Prosody you can run 'prosodyctl check features' and it will tell you if you're missing any of the common stuff people want in a modern messaging app. Hope this helps :)
deleted 19d ago
[deleted]

pona-a 19d ago

This is effectively settled. Every client worth using has standardized on certain extensions, and there are server capability testers for it [0]. There are still a LOT of things very much up in the air, such as message deletion, which work inconsistently from client to client, but message history is not it. [0] https://compliance.conversations.im/ https://compliance.conversations.im/

tcfhgj 19d ago
call me out if I am wrong, but isn't history dependent on the server of the chatroom creator, and doesn't every server have different history settings and does it not handle encrypted messages fully?
- MattJ100 19d ago
  Yes, XMPP server implementations typically give admins full control over data retention. Different use cases demand different settings, so it's quite adaptable to whatever needs you have. I'm not sure what you mean by not handling encrypted messages fully, it handles encrypted messages fine.
  - tcfhgj 19d ago
    > so it's quite adaptable to whatever needs you have. as a user you cannot, even if you self host, because you are not the one controlling message storage > I'm not sure what you mean by not handling encrypted messages fully, it handles encrypted messages fine. you can load encrypted messages (including keys if they are needed to decrypt them if necessary) using a fresh login such that you can read them again?

spystath 19d ago

I think Snikket [0] is supposed to do that? They even offer a turnkey hosted version. [0] https://snikket.org/start/ https://snikket.org/start/

Gud 19d ago
This may sound stupid to a predominantly GNU/Linux audience, but as a FreeBSD user(and Linux user!), when a daemon is not available for FreeBSD, it's a very bad sign. "Because Snikket is designed natively as a tightly integrated suite of Docker containers built around the Prosody XMPP server, running it natively on FreeBSD is complex." Holy shit
- MattJ100 19d ago
  FWIW I'm the founder of both the Snikket and Prosody projects. If you're a FreeBSD user, or even an experienced hands-on Linux sysadmin, I'd probably recommend going with Prosody, unless docker is your thing. Snikket aimed to fill the gap for people who wanted an "out of the box" XMPP distribution kind of thing, and it's good at that. But shipping a bunch of software components with opinionated configurations doesn't really mesh well with distribution-level package management, and only really works with a container kind of ecosystem. Both routes exist and are equally viable. Prosody has ports available for all the popular BSDs, and installing it should be a breeze. Just be prepared to then also set up a TURN server if you want calls, and potentially some web server stuff to if you want some of those features. After installing Prosody you can run 'prosodyctl check features' and it will tell you if you're missing any of the common stuff people want in a modern messaging app. Hope this helps :)

deleted 19d ago

[deleted]