3 ms·

I hope more people realize, protocol is not the problem, user experience is. The Telegram client leads in every aspect by far. It's just easy to use.

by est 12d ago

encom 12d ago
As long as the Signal desktop app is a 420 MB[1] pile of Electron, I refuse to install it. I may be a dinosaur, but a good desktop app is a requirement. I hate typing on a touch screen. [1] $ curl -s https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt/dists/xenial/main/binary-amd64/Packages | awk '/^Package: signal-desktop$/{p=1} p{print} /^$/{if(p) exit}'
- mrweasel 12d ago
  Same, it might conflicts a little with the desire to have a single application, but I want a native application for each platform which uses native UI and libraries. There's no reason a messaging app should be more than e.g. 40MB.
- codedokode 12d ago
  I am ok with Electron if it is needed for Matrix. Also, Telegram has a C++ desktop client. Also, I would not advise to add proprietary repositories as you grant them root access to your system which is against security practices such as the principle of minimum privileges and defence-in-depth.
- pixelschubsi0 12d ago
  As a dinosaur, maybe dino.im is something for you ;)
- Markoff 11d ago
  I would rather prefer browser app like Whatsapp/Telegram, I am not going to install extra app and switching windows to see chat when I spend most of the day in browser on desktop
Aldipower 12d ago
This is true. Telegram is fast, stable and has some leading and meaningful features. On mobile AND desktop.
yogthos 12d ago
I'm really surprised that nobody bothered making a fork of the Telegram open source client that works with XMPP.
- ezst 12d ago
  I looked into that very briefly about a decade or so ago: it would be very difficult to get it done and maintained in practice. XMPP leans towards the "dumb server/smart client" side of the trade-off, while Telegram is the exact opposite: while an XMPP client establishes and maintains a session and its state, retrieves a list of discussions, for each, requests and processes new messages, and infers reas markers and counts (a bit like a traditional mail client like thunderbird), Telegram maintains the session and the client state on the server and the client is a thin layer to just display it.
  - yogthos 12d ago
    Ah I see, it does look like you'd basically have to rewrite all the machinery, and you'd only be able to keep parts of the UI/UX layer.
    - ezst 11d ago
      Precisely, which isn't much, and on top of that, you would have those modified as well to map to XMPP concepts and specifics. That said, I do believe that XMPP deserves a beautiful Qt client. There is Kaidan (QtQuick), but it's very opinionated (practically incompatible with groupchats and preferring a mobile UI paradigm)
Gualdrapo 12d ago
> The Telegram client leads in every aspect by far. It's just easy to use. I really like Telegram, it's the closest thing to what I wish IM should be, but still it's so far from it and to be honest its apps suck now trying to shove the "premium" features down your throat. I prefer using TelegramX (or Forkgram to still be able to see statuses)
aboardRat4 11d ago
>The Telegram client leads in every aspect by far. It's just easy to use. Frankly speaking, Telegram is also shit. It just sucks a bit less than the rest of them.
theshrike79 11d ago
Telegram has by far the best bot support of any platform, with Discord a close second followed by Slack. This is what the FOSS services kinda tend to glaze over, SO MUCH of my personal and professional life is managed by chatting with services that are represented as bots in a chat.
- tcfhgj 9d ago
  Interesting, I have no use of bots in my messenger at all. What does the Telegram Bot api have, what Matrixes API doesn't have?
  - theshrike79 9d ago
    Everything: https://core.telegram.org/bots https://core.telegram.org/bots Bots are, on a platform level, presented as bots. It's not a courtesy rule of "please name bot accounts as _bot" or something. You can do actual payments with the API, it's possible to earn money with a bot. Custom inline keyboards you can use to operate bots instead of parsing commands like ye olde IRC bots. Like a home automation bot could reply with a list of rooms when you ask for a room temperature, then you just tap the button for that room. Closed source, walled garden yadda yadda, but it just works. Discord bots are a bit less robust, but can still do a ton of things "natively" Matrix bots can't.

I hope more people realize, protocol is not the problem, user experience is. The Telegram client leads in every aspect by far. It's just easy to use.

by est 12d ago

I hope more people realize, protocol is not the problem, user experience is. The Telegram client leads in every aspect by far. It's just easy to use.

encom 12d ago

As long as the Signal desktop app is a 420 MB[1] pile of Electron, I refuse to install it. I may be a dinosaur, but a good desktop app is a requirement. I hate typing on a touch screen. [1] $ curl -s https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt/dists/xenial/main/binary-amd64/Packages | awk '/^Package: signal-desktop$/{p=1} p{print} /^$/{if(p) exit}'

mrweasel 12d ago
Same, it might conflicts a little with the desire to have a single application, but I want a native application for each platform which uses native UI and libraries. There's no reason a messaging app should be more than e.g. 40MB.
codedokode 12d ago
I am ok with Electron if it is needed for Matrix. Also, Telegram has a C++ desktop client. Also, I would not advise to add proprietary repositories as you grant them root access to your system which is against security practices such as the principle of minimum privileges and defence-in-depth.
pixelschubsi0 12d ago
As a dinosaur, maybe dino.im is something for you ;)
Markoff 11d ago
I would rather prefer browser app like Whatsapp/Telegram, I am not going to install extra app and switching windows to see chat when I spend most of the day in browser on desktop

Aldipower 12d ago

This is true. Telegram is fast, stable and has some leading and meaningful features. On mobile AND desktop.

yogthos 12d ago

I'm really surprised that nobody bothered making a fork of the Telegram open source client that works with XMPP.

ezst 12d ago
I looked into that very briefly about a decade or so ago: it would be very difficult to get it done and maintained in practice. XMPP leans towards the "dumb server/smart client" side of the trade-off, while Telegram is the exact opposite: while an XMPP client establishes and maintains a session and its state, retrieves a list of discussions, for each, requests and processes new messages, and infers reas markers and counts (a bit like a traditional mail client like thunderbird), Telegram maintains the session and the client state on the server and the client is a thin layer to just display it.
- yogthos 12d ago
  Ah I see, it does look like you'd basically have to rewrite all the machinery, and you'd only be able to keep parts of the UI/UX layer.
  - ezst 11d ago
    Precisely, which isn't much, and on top of that, you would have those modified as well to map to XMPP concepts and specifics. That said, I do believe that XMPP deserves a beautiful Qt client. There is Kaidan (QtQuick), but it's very opinionated (practically incompatible with groupchats and preferring a mobile UI paradigm)

Gualdrapo 12d ago

> The Telegram client leads in every aspect by far. It's just easy to use. I really like Telegram, it's the closest thing to what I wish IM should be, but still it's so far from it and to be honest its apps suck now trying to shove the "premium" features down your throat. I prefer using TelegramX (or Forkgram to still be able to see statuses)

aboardRat4 11d ago

>The Telegram client leads in every aspect by far. It's just easy to use. Frankly speaking, Telegram is also shit. It just sucks a bit less than the rest of them.

theshrike79 11d ago

Telegram has by far the best bot support of any platform, with Discord a close second followed by Slack. This is what the FOSS services kinda tend to glaze over, SO MUCH of my personal and professional life is managed by chatting with services that are represented as bots in a chat.

tcfhgj 9d ago
Interesting, I have no use of bots in my messenger at all. What does the Telegram Bot api have, what Matrixes API doesn't have?
- theshrike79 9d ago
  Everything: https://core.telegram.org/bots https://core.telegram.org/bots Bots are, on a platform level, presented as bots. It's not a courtesy rule of "please name bot accounts as _bot" or something. You can do actual payments with the API, it's possible to earn money with a bot. Custom inline keyboards you can use to operate bots instead of parsing commands like ye olde IRC bots. Like a home automation bot could reply with a list of rooms when you ask for a room temperature, then you just tap the button for that room. Closed source, walled garden yadda yadda, but it just works. Discord bots are a bit less robust, but can still do a ton of things "natively" Matrix bots can't.