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> The median ML engineer in Germany earns 70,000 euros. The numbers are stuck at 2018 levels. Accumulated inflation since then is over 20%. This bubble is not

> The median ML engineer in Germany earns 70,000 euros. The numbers are stuck at 2018 levels. Accumulated inflation since then is over 20%. This bubble is not glamorous at all.

ferris-booler 12d ago
> an AI engineer in the US at 146,000 to 189,000, a median of 70,000 euros in Germany, 111,000 francs in Zurich. Interested to hear from European HNers: does this sound accurate? I know EU pay bands are lower than US but a 50% cut even after adjusting for currency feels brutal. Also curious why the Swiss number is so much higher?
- ffsm8 12d ago
  I'm German and it'd say it's plausible for median. Switzerland basically still has a middle class, that's why their wages are where they're. While my wage has significant improved over the last years, statistics show that wages have been stagnating for 20 years and inequality keeps rising. Obviously a lot less pronounced then in the USA, but still significantly more then in eg Switzerland. The difference is even bigger if you look at current valuation of chf, it's almost $140k or 120k€ Though you should keep in mind that Germany has a pretty strong social security system. Not a benefit if you're a working adult, but it explains some of the difference
  - lifestyleguru 11d ago
    > Though you should keep in mind that Germany has a pretty strong social security system. Not a benefit if you're a working adult, but it explains some of the difference Germany has so many billionaires that literally every minor region has their own local billionaire and locals feel proudly represented by him/her. Yet the "strong social security system" is almost fully financed by employed people paying over 40% cut from their monthly payslip.
    - ffsm8 10d ago
      40%? If you add the Mehrwertsteuer you'll pay on all bought goods you're paying significantly over 50%. And if you're unmarried over 60%, because clearly fuck them as far as German society is concerned. And that's on top of what I was referencing: eg a lot of the social security payments are split across employees and employer. The employer part is essentially hidden in the wage, but the employer is still required to pay them - and for the employer, it obviously doesn't matter whom he needs to pay this to... It's almost if the government wanted to hide just how much they're actually taking from the payslip, because if you add THAT as well, you end up significantly over 60%, approaching the 70%. And all that to never actually get anything back from the system, at least if you're millennial or younger. But we've clearly gone off track here ༎ຶ ‿ ༎ຶ
- lifestyleguru 11d ago
  Recalling my job seeking endeavours in the past in CH I confirm the salary in CH and also confirm it is stuck at 2018 levels.

> The median ML engineer in Germany earns 70,000 euros. The numbers are stuck at 2018 levels. Accumulated inflation since then is over 20%. This bubble is not glamorous at all.

ferris-booler 12d ago

> an AI engineer in the US at 146,000 to 189,000, a median of 70,000 euros in Germany, 111,000 francs in Zurich. Interested to hear from European HNers: does this sound accurate? I know EU pay bands are lower than US but a 50% cut even after adjusting for currency feels brutal. Also curious why the Swiss number is so much higher?

ffsm8 12d ago
I'm German and it'd say it's plausible for median. Switzerland basically still has a middle class, that's why their wages are where they're. While my wage has significant improved over the last years, statistics show that wages have been stagnating for 20 years and inequality keeps rising. Obviously a lot less pronounced then in the USA, but still significantly more then in eg Switzerland. The difference is even bigger if you look at current valuation of chf, it's almost $140k or 120k€ Though you should keep in mind that Germany has a pretty strong social security system. Not a benefit if you're a working adult, but it explains some of the difference
- lifestyleguru 11d ago
  > Though you should keep in mind that Germany has a pretty strong social security system. Not a benefit if you're a working adult, but it explains some of the difference Germany has so many billionaires that literally every minor region has their own local billionaire and locals feel proudly represented by him/her. Yet the "strong social security system" is almost fully financed by employed people paying over 40% cut from their monthly payslip.
  - ffsm8 10d ago
    40%? If you add the Mehrwertsteuer you'll pay on all bought goods you're paying significantly over 50%. And if you're unmarried over 60%, because clearly fuck them as far as German society is concerned. And that's on top of what I was referencing: eg a lot of the social security payments are split across employees and employer. The employer part is essentially hidden in the wage, but the employer is still required to pay them - and for the employer, it obviously doesn't matter whom he needs to pay this to... It's almost if the government wanted to hide just how much they're actually taking from the payslip, because if you add THAT as well, you end up significantly over 60%, approaching the 70%. And all that to never actually get anything back from the system, at least if you're millennial or younger. But we've clearly gone off track here ༎ຶ ‿ ༎ຶ
lifestyleguru 11d ago
Recalling my job seeking endeavours in the past in CH I confirm the salary in CH and also confirm it is stuck at 2018 levels.