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There's a difference between creating a market for something better, so that nobody wants the old thing, and competing _in_ the market for the old thing by copy

There's a difference between creating a market for something better, so that nobody wants the old thing, and competing _in_ the market for the old thing by copying it directly.

darkwater 12d ago
And what would be a read-only version of X like XCancel compete against, exactly? Ads impressions? That would be the only possible thing yet they don't add any ads.
- brainwad 12d ago
  It's depriving X of impressions that they could monetise, no? Xcancel doesn't have to make money itself, it just has to impair the rights of the copyright holder. Otherwise piracy would also be legal as long as it were non-profit...
  - darkwater 12d ago
    > Otherwise piracy would also be legal as long as it were non-profit... Which is in a few jurisdictions, or at least is not prosecuted if it's for personal use. Also, according to your definition, the creator of uBlock Origin or any other adblock system should be sued in the same way, because they are depriving $ADS_CORP of their precious impressions.
    - brainwad 12d ago
      Well, adblockers don't copy the copyrighted content. They just control how it's rendered on the user's machine. Copyright cares about making copies and especially distributing them.
      - darkwater 12d ago
        You have a point on this, I recognize, but it still seems a very thin line to walk (for X) - at least morally, because I don't think they are actually loosing real big money to anyone.
      - 8note 12d ago
        X doesnt own msot of those copyrights, except where its elon musk's own posts. i dont think the actual copyright owners care, given they put their content onto a vaguely public view where they aim to get the most traffic to something else they are doing
      - butlike 12d ago
        Xcancel isn't copying the copyrighted content either. It takes the raw JSON/HTML data from twitter/x via reverse proxy and redisplays it on xcancel, as opposed to twitter/x. How is that copying?
        deleted 12d ago
        [deleted]
bluefirebrand 12d ago
I don't really buy this. It's like saying "toaster oven/air fryer combos" don't actually compete with toaster ovens or air fryers because they are creating a market for something better Of course they complete. Toaster ovens compete with toasters. Microwaves compete with toaster ovens. Just because it's not the exact same product doesn't mean it's not competing Would I be allowed to steal LG's designs for a microwave and make a "superwave" that does laundry and heats food? Would you claim those products don't compete because the superwave is "something better"?
- brainwad 12d ago
  It's not illegal to write a similar book or song to an existing one. Copyright only protects existing works from literal copying (possibly in part).
  - immibis2 12d ago
    And derivative works, like AI makes
wongarsu 12d ago
If LLMs only made SO redundant by writing code and solving my technical problems autonomously so I never have to think about it, I would agree. But often I do ask LLMs technical questions, and they answer in great detail. And that part is a very direct SO competitor
immibis2 12d ago
If two things are competing, they are in the same market by definition.

There's a difference between creating a market for something better, so that nobody wants the old thing, and competing _in_ the market for the old thing by copying it directly.

darkwater 12d ago

And what would be a read-only version of X like XCancel compete against, exactly? Ads impressions? That would be the only possible thing yet they don't add any ads.

brainwad 12d ago
It's depriving X of impressions that they could monetise, no? Xcancel doesn't have to make money itself, it just has to impair the rights of the copyright holder. Otherwise piracy would also be legal as long as it were non-profit...
- darkwater 12d ago
  > Otherwise piracy would also be legal as long as it were non-profit... Which is in a few jurisdictions, or at least is not prosecuted if it's for personal use. Also, according to your definition, the creator of uBlock Origin or any other adblock system should be sued in the same way, because they are depriving $ADS_CORP of their precious impressions.
  - brainwad 12d ago
    Well, adblockers don't copy the copyrighted content. They just control how it's rendered on the user's machine. Copyright cares about making copies and especially distributing them.
    - darkwater 12d ago
      You have a point on this, I recognize, but it still seems a very thin line to walk (for X) - at least morally, because I don't think they are actually loosing real big money to anyone.
    - 8note 12d ago
      X doesnt own msot of those copyrights, except where its elon musk's own posts. i dont think the actual copyright owners care, given they put their content onto a vaguely public view where they aim to get the most traffic to something else they are doing
    - butlike 12d ago
      Xcancel isn't copying the copyrighted content either. It takes the raw JSON/HTML data from twitter/x via reverse proxy and redisplays it on xcancel, as opposed to twitter/x. How is that copying?
      - deleted 12d ago
        [deleted]

bluefirebrand 12d ago

I don't really buy this. It's like saying "toaster oven/air fryer combos" don't actually compete with toaster ovens or air fryers because they are creating a market for something better Of course they complete. Toaster ovens compete with toasters. Microwaves compete with toaster ovens. Just because it's not the exact same product doesn't mean it's not competing Would I be allowed to steal LG's designs for a microwave and make a "superwave" that does laundry and heats food? Would you claim those products don't compete because the superwave is "something better"?

brainwad 12d ago
It's not illegal to write a similar book or song to an existing one. Copyright only protects existing works from literal copying (possibly in part).
- immibis2 12d ago
  And derivative works, like AI makes

wongarsu 12d ago

If LLMs only made SO redundant by writing code and solving my technical problems autonomously so I never have to think about it, I would agree. But often I do ask LLMs technical questions, and they answer in great detail. And that part is a very direct SO competitor

immibis2 12d ago

If two things are competing, they are in the same market by definition.