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> that is as much a risk for people who don't go to college to those who do. Statistically, you see a correlation of less risk by going to college because only

> that is as much a risk for people who don't go to college to those who do. Statistically, you see a correlation of less risk by going to college because only people who fit a certain mould are able to go to college at all. For example, those with certain disabilities will be unable to study in school, and will also struggle in the workplace, which skews interpretations of the data in interesting ways. Keep in mind that the college educated make up about 20-25% of the population. The unemployment rate is around 7%. That means that the vast majority of the population are employed just fine without degrees, and many are making decent incomes at that.

jiggy2011 14y ago
True, but the article seems to talk about people who presumably had the option to go to college (i.e the grades and aptitude) but opted not to.
- randomdata 14y ago
  If they have the aptitude and skill necessary to complete a degree, they likely also have the smarts to turn their career into more later in life. Maybe they intend to take that quick and easy money and use it to bootstrap a million dollar business in a few years? I get the feeling that you feel they have no road ahead without a degree, which I don't quite understand.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Not really, the issue is that having the right sort of experience to get ahead. I would wager that you are more likely to get a job as a graduate that will provide you with useful experience. A huge number of non grad jobs don't pay too bad by the standards of a younger person but really don't give the sorts of experience that help one get ahead. I know smart people who skipped college to work retail and 10 years on are still pulling not much more than minimum wage. With a reasonable degree they would certainly have had more options open to them.
    - randomdata 14y ago
      I know people with degrees who have the same struggle, and people without degrees making six figure salaries. Of course anecdotes are just that. I have never been able to find evidence that the 25% of the population made up of those with degrees fare better than the top 25% of the population without degrees. But since we are going on gut feelings here, my gut tells me that you will find no discernible difference between the two groups.
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        Well any figures would be old and from the UK (where I am) but I remember £100K in lifetime earnings being banded around (bear in mind that education is cheaper here and the debt is less of an issue since you only have to pay it when you are earning above a threshold). In my experience in the UK it really depends on what you are applying for, here the biggest companies tend to pay the best salaries and the biggest companies don't tend to like (for example) self taught developers. If you look at job listings here for programmers a degree will be a requirement for more than 50% and they won't waive this because you have an impressive github. Another big plus for having a degree is that it makes getting a VISA easier thus giving more options. Also there is also the advantage that by being in college/uni you will meet people who have the "right background" which can help in job search. For example the father of one student in our CS class asked his son to tell him who the best 10 programmers in that year were and more or less hired them on the spot at graduation. What I am saying in essence though is not "get a degree" vs "don't get a degree" but rather that saying "don't get a degree because you will be $X richer in 4 years time" seems like a rather weak argument.
        randomdata 14y ago
        The UK must be fairly unique in this regard, because in North America companies are just happy to hire anyone who can open a text editor for programming jobs. Not even Google, who once was quite vocal about hiring only graduates of top universities, can concern themselves about your education anymore. There are just not enough people to even start to be choosy. Since I am not familiar with the employment landscape in the UK, I am going to have to take your word for the satiation there. However, since this article is US-based, I do not feel that your picture paints the employment situation in the US in the proper light. Formal education does not have that kind of relevance on the western side of the pond.

jiggy2011 14y ago

True, but the article seems to talk about people who presumably had the option to go to college (i.e the grades and aptitude) but opted not to.

randomdata 14y ago
If they have the aptitude and skill necessary to complete a degree, they likely also have the smarts to turn their career into more later in life. Maybe they intend to take that quick and easy money and use it to bootstrap a million dollar business in a few years? I get the feeling that you feel they have no road ahead without a degree, which I don't quite understand.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  Not really, the issue is that having the right sort of experience to get ahead. I would wager that you are more likely to get a job as a graduate that will provide you with useful experience. A huge number of non grad jobs don't pay too bad by the standards of a younger person but really don't give the sorts of experience that help one get ahead. I know smart people who skipped college to work retail and 10 years on are still pulling not much more than minimum wage. With a reasonable degree they would certainly have had more options open to them.
  - randomdata 14y ago
    I know people with degrees who have the same struggle, and people without degrees making six figure salaries. Of course anecdotes are just that. I have never been able to find evidence that the 25% of the population made up of those with degrees fare better than the top 25% of the population without degrees. But since we are going on gut feelings here, my gut tells me that you will find no discernible difference between the two groups.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      Well any figures would be old and from the UK (where I am) but I remember £100K in lifetime earnings being banded around (bear in mind that education is cheaper here and the debt is less of an issue since you only have to pay it when you are earning above a threshold). In my experience in the UK it really depends on what you are applying for, here the biggest companies tend to pay the best salaries and the biggest companies don't tend to like (for example) self taught developers. If you look at job listings here for programmers a degree will be a requirement for more than 50% and they won't waive this because you have an impressive github. Another big plus for having a degree is that it makes getting a VISA easier thus giving more options. Also there is also the advantage that by being in college/uni you will meet people who have the "right background" which can help in job search. For example the father of one student in our CS class asked his son to tell him who the best 10 programmers in that year were and more or less hired them on the spot at graduation. What I am saying in essence though is not "get a degree" vs "don't get a degree" but rather that saying "don't get a degree because you will be $X richer in 4 years time" seems like a rather weak argument.
      - randomdata 14y ago
        The UK must be fairly unique in this regard, because in North America companies are just happy to hire anyone who can open a text editor for programming jobs. Not even Google, who once was quite vocal about hiring only graduates of top universities, can concern themselves about your education anymore. There are just not enough people to even start to be choosy. Since I am not familiar with the employment landscape in the UK, I am going to have to take your word for the satiation there. However, since this article is US-based, I do not feel that your picture paints the employment situation in the US in the proper light. Formal education does not have that kind of relevance on the western side of the pond.