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> the surveillance networks can capture metadata - who talks to who and when If this is part of your threat model then I would suggest a different tool such as

> the surveillance networks can capture metadata - who talks to who and when If this is part of your threat model then I would suggest a different tool such as SimpleX since it uses onion routing and can be configured to always use private routing/relays.

bawolff 12d ago
I'm not familiar with SimpleX, but keep in mind only some types of onion routing is secure against a global passive adversary. Famously Tor is not.
- Cider9986 12d ago
  Nym is apparently good against a global adversary.
- ranger_danger 11d ago
  One idea I had for an improvement to Tor wrt sybils was to split traffic up and send different pieces to different nodes, possibly using different circuits for the pieces, so that even if you have control over all the nodes in one path, you most likely won't have full control over all the paths it sprays the pieces over.
mitxela 12d ago
Session uses onion routing. SimpleX does not.
- ranger_danger 11d ago
  > SimpleX does not. https://simplex.chat/faq/ https://simplex.chat/faq/ > Private message routing is, effectively, a two-hop onion packet routing. And actually, it's even better than that: > Private message routing routes packets (each message is one 16kb packet), not sockets. Unlike Tor and VPN, it does not create circuits between your client and destination servers. The forwarding server creates one shared session between itself and the destination, and forwards all messages from you and other clients to that destination server, mixing messages from many clients into a single TCP session. > As each message uses its own random encryption key and random (non-sequential) identifier, the destination server cannot link multiple message queue addresses to the same client. At the same time, the forwarding server cannot observe which (and how many) addresses on the destination server your client sends messages to, thanks to e2e encryption between the client and destination server. In that regard, this design is similar to onion routing, but with per-packet anonymity, not per-circuit. > This design is similar to mixnets (e.g. Nym network), and it is tailored to the needs of message routing, providing better transport anonymity than general-purpose networks, like Tor or VPN. You still can use Tor or VPN to connect to known servers, to protect your IP address from them.

bawolff 12d ago

I'm not familiar with SimpleX, but keep in mind only some types of onion routing is secure against a global passive adversary. Famously Tor is not.

Cider9986 12d ago
Nym is apparently good against a global adversary.
ranger_danger 11d ago
One idea I had for an improvement to Tor wrt sybils was to split traffic up and send different pieces to different nodes, possibly using different circuits for the pieces, so that even if you have control over all the nodes in one path, you most likely won't have full control over all the paths it sprays the pieces over.

mitxela 12d ago

Session uses onion routing. SimpleX does not.

ranger_danger 11d ago
> SimpleX does not. https://simplex.chat/faq/ https://simplex.chat/faq/ > Private message routing is, effectively, a two-hop onion packet routing. And actually, it's even better than that: > Private message routing routes packets (each message is one 16kb packet), not sockets. Unlike Tor and VPN, it does not create circuits between your client and destination servers. The forwarding server creates one shared session between itself and the destination, and forwards all messages from you and other clients to that destination server, mixing messages from many clients into a single TCP session. > As each message uses its own random encryption key and random (non-sequential) identifier, the destination server cannot link multiple message queue addresses to the same client. At the same time, the forwarding server cannot observe which (and how many) addresses on the destination server your client sends messages to, thanks to e2e encryption between the client and destination server. In that regard, this design is similar to onion routing, but with per-packet anonymity, not per-circuit. > This design is similar to mixnets (e.g. Nym network), and it is tailored to the needs of message routing, providing better transport anonymity than general-purpose networks, like Tor or VPN. You still can use Tor or VPN to connect to known servers, to protect your IP address from them.