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I am not surprised that Silicon Valley researchers say they cannot solve the alignment problem... Here the leading voice in the region publishes an article abou

by youoy 19d ago

I am not surprised that Silicon Valley researchers say they cannot solve the alignment problem... Here the leading voice in the region publishes an article about how to be more powerful without any other mention of alignment but "users". For example, I am sure facebook users (the ones buying ads) are super happy, but is the company aligned?

sigbottle 19d ago
To a first approximation, everything is power. How do we prove alignment? Often times, large regulatory bodies. Who supports that? Does the regulatory body actually have enough power to enforce those standards? (Hint: look at modern America). That's an example of power questions sneaking in even when you didn't want to. Even "mere Darwinism" is less extreme because it pretends like there is some objective criterion called natural selection that will filter out bad candidates, when it's often the case that the bad candidates are the ones that weren't proactive to define the selection process themselves. Sitting back and optimizing for an externally imposed standard is worse than being able to impose said standard yourself. (If this point was complicated - my point is that yes, Darwinism makes sense, but when applying it, you can get a mis-skewed definition of what "natural selection" really entails. I am calling out that caveat). Of course, my hope is that that isn't the end all, be all solution. Philosophy doesn't end with Nietzche, hopefully. But the world does sure looks bleak right now...
- popalchemist 19d ago
  Counterpoint: Love is not power. "Where love rules, there is no will to power, and where power predominates, there love is lacking. The one is the shadow of the other." -Jung
  - mitxela 19d ago
    And yet we have the saying "all's fair in love and war." Adultery, experienced in xx% of relationships, is a blatant power struggle. It's normal to edit your dating app pictures (or was back when people actually used dating apps) to look more attractive, or to get cosmetic surgery. There's custody battles and all that.
    - popalchemist 18d ago
      that is not the love jung is referring to.

by youoy 19d ago

sigbottle 19d ago

To a first approximation, everything is power. How do we prove alignment? Often times, large regulatory bodies. Who supports that? Does the regulatory body actually have enough power to enforce those standards? (Hint: look at modern America). That's an example of power questions sneaking in even when you didn't want to. Even "mere Darwinism" is less extreme because it pretends like there is some objective criterion called natural selection that will filter out bad candidates, when it's often the case that the bad candidates are the ones that weren't proactive to define the selection process themselves. Sitting back and optimizing for an externally imposed standard is worse than being able to impose said standard yourself. (If this point was complicated - my point is that yes, Darwinism makes sense, but when applying it, you can get a mis-skewed definition of what "natural selection" really entails. I am calling out that caveat). Of course, my hope is that that isn't the end all, be all solution. Philosophy doesn't end with Nietzche, hopefully. But the world does sure looks bleak right now...

popalchemist 19d ago
Counterpoint: Love is not power. "Where love rules, there is no will to power, and where power predominates, there love is lacking. The one is the shadow of the other." -Jung
- mitxela 19d ago
  And yet we have the saying "all's fair in love and war." Adultery, experienced in xx% of relationships, is a blatant power struggle. It's normal to edit your dating app pictures (or was back when people actually used dating apps) to look more attractive, or to get cosmetic surgery. There's custody battles and all that.
  - popalchemist 18d ago
    that is not the love jung is referring to.