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Right, that's why it's legal. We all get that

JumpCrisscross 13d ago
> that's why it's legal Which is a fundamental difference. When Apple extends me credit to buy an iPhone, that isn't circular financing in a problematic way. I was buying the phone anyway, the financing just made it easier.
- mschuster91 13d ago
  It's still questionable. Similar to car manufacturers or IKEA, who all have their own banks, Apple has an incentive to hand out credit to people who should not get it, increasing the likelihood of people getting underwater with their debt. Generally, the fact that most non-Boomer people simply don't have the means to even save up for basic consumer goods like cars, furniture or a phone but have to go into debt instead is scary. Our entire economy has become a house of cards.
  - JumpCrisscross 13d ago
    > still questionable Oh hell yeah. But a lot of folks are treating the existence of customer financing as damning per se. The scale is daunting. But the scale of the entire AI enterprise is massive.
    - jqpabc123 13d ago
      But the scale of the entire AI enterprise is massive. Yes --- and the scale of the money being set on fire is epic. And if/when the burning comes to a screeching halt, the resulting crash wil be likewise.
    - mschuster91 13d ago
      > But a lot of folks are treating the existence of customer financing as damning per se. Yeah because it's gotten completely predatory. That is what people are getting ever more pissed off about - advertising, social media and gamification (have you seen the ads for Tiktok, Whatnot, Wish and whatever else goes with "live shopping" recently?) leads people to go way deeper into credit than they can afford.
      - JumpCrisscross 13d ago
        > because it's gotten completely predatory That makes sense. It's still an emotional misplacement. Your and my relation with our consumer lenders has nothing to do with Nvidia's relationship with OpenAI, Anthropic and SpaceXAIwhateverthefuck.
        mschuster91 13d ago
        > Your and my relation with our consumer lenders has nothing to do with Nvidia's relationship with OpenAI, Anthropic and SpaceXAIwhateverthefuck. Yes, but your original comment said that Apple's financing "isn't circular financing in a problematic way". It might not be the classic way of "circular" financing but it is highly problematic. And I'd even go as far as to saying that, yes it is a form of circular financing, because Apple hands you money to spend that money on a product they make at much less cost than it costs you on paper and, that's the more important thing, serves as an entrypoint into their highly effective walled garden called App Store.

> that's why it's legal Which is a fundamental difference. When Apple extends me credit to buy an iPhone, that isn't circular financing in a problematic way. I was buying the phone anyway, the financing just made it easier.

mschuster91 13d ago
It's still questionable. Similar to car manufacturers or IKEA, who all have their own banks, Apple has an incentive to hand out credit to people who should not get it, increasing the likelihood of people getting underwater with their debt. Generally, the fact that most non-Boomer people simply don't have the means to even save up for basic consumer goods like cars, furniture or a phone but have to go into debt instead is scary. Our entire economy has become a house of cards.
- JumpCrisscross 13d ago
  > still questionable Oh hell yeah. But a lot of folks are treating the existence of customer financing as damning per se. The scale is daunting. But the scale of the entire AI enterprise is massive.
  - jqpabc123 13d ago
    But the scale of the entire AI enterprise is massive. Yes --- and the scale of the money being set on fire is epic. And if/when the burning comes to a screeching halt, the resulting crash wil be likewise.
  - mschuster91 13d ago
    > But a lot of folks are treating the existence of customer financing as damning per se. Yeah because it's gotten completely predatory. That is what people are getting ever more pissed off about - advertising, social media and gamification (have you seen the ads for Tiktok, Whatnot, Wish and whatever else goes with "live shopping" recently?) leads people to go way deeper into credit than they can afford.
    - JumpCrisscross 13d ago
      > because it's gotten completely predatory That makes sense. It's still an emotional misplacement. Your and my relation with our consumer lenders has nothing to do with Nvidia's relationship with OpenAI, Anthropic and SpaceXAIwhateverthefuck.
      - mschuster91 13d ago
        > Your and my relation with our consumer lenders has nothing to do with Nvidia's relationship with OpenAI, Anthropic and SpaceXAIwhateverthefuck. Yes, but your original comment said that Apple's financing "isn't circular financing in a problematic way". It might not be the classic way of "circular" financing but it is highly problematic. And I'd even go as far as to saying that, yes it is a form of circular financing, because Apple hands you money to spend that money on a product they make at much less cost than it costs you on paper and, that's the more important thing, serves as an entrypoint into their highly effective walled garden called App Store.