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You're reducing programming to its utility in producing exchange value in the captitalist political economy. That's what "value" means in this context. That's e

by tkel 21d ago

You're reducing programming to its utility in producing exchange value in the captitalist political economy. That's what "value" means in this context. That's exactly what I'm pointing out. Programming is more than that, if you can think beyond your current economic constraints. Your life's activity ought to be more than just a tool for producing capitalist exchange value. Does cooking food serve any purpose beyond mass producing food for restaurants to sell?

mawadev 20d ago
Absolutely correct take. People are so caught up in doing the bidding, they forget what it is all about.
fragmede 21d ago
People are used to paying for food. They delight in paying more for highly rated Michelin starred food, even. Software is the opposite. People really really hate paying for software. It should all be free! The fact that making an additional copy of a piece of software is basically free vs creating an additional plate for dinner is very much not, has a lot to do with that. For sure. But it also means that I don't see a future where the "capitalist political economy" truely "values" aka pays seriously good money for a bespoke, handcrafted, no AI slop here, version of Photoshop to be run only once, and then you poop it out later.
becquerel 20d ago
It would be nice if I could live my life without concern for producing capitalist exchange value. However, I live under the regime of capital and need to pay rent. So my goal is to pay rent with the least amount of suffering on my part.
- tripzilch 20d ago
  But we can agree that writing with such disdain about people doing literally anything else, is perhaps a bit of a bad look. Especially if it comes from Carmack, a guy who doesn't need to pay rent any more and can in fact live the rest of his life without concern for producing value, etc etc. He is currently doing exactly what he wants, just because he wants it. And that happens to be VR stuff, currently, afaik. And that's his choice. So when he speaks deeply condescending about other people doing exactly what they want ("retro computing is so delightful") it definitely comes from a different place as "hey I just want to pay my rent".
orangecat 20d ago
You're reducing programming to its utility in producing exchange value in the captitalist political economy. Well, yes? If you want to write code that isn't useful to anyone and just gives you warm fuzzies, go for it. I've done plenty of that. But it's exceptionally selfish to try to forbid technological improvements so that you can get paid to work exactly how you want to. Does cooking food serve any purpose beyond mass producing food for restaurants to sell? Should we ban industrial agriculture so that you can feel more proud of your rooftop garden?
- daveguy 19d ago
  Rapid, empty, and poorly integrated code that appears to work but no one bothers to understand is much less valuable than everyone seems to believe.
suriyaG 20d ago
> exchange value in the captitalist political economy. how can one exist in modern society without being an exchange value in the capitalist political economy? linux is where it is because it is able to be a critical part of said capitalist political economy. even if you want to be a FOSS contributor all your life, you need someone to figure out the "economy" part of it. food is a false equivalence in this case.

by tkel 21d ago

mawadev 20d ago

Absolutely correct take. People are so caught up in doing the bidding, they forget what it is all about.

fragmede 21d ago

People are used to paying for food. They delight in paying more for highly rated Michelin starred food, even. Software is the opposite. People really really hate paying for software. It should all be free! The fact that making an additional copy of a piece of software is basically free vs creating an additional plate for dinner is very much not, has a lot to do with that. For sure. But it also means that I don't see a future where the "capitalist political economy" truely "values" aka pays seriously good money for a bespoke, handcrafted, no AI slop here, version of Photoshop to be run only once, and then you poop it out later.

becquerel 20d ago

It would be nice if I could live my life without concern for producing capitalist exchange value. However, I live under the regime of capital and need to pay rent. So my goal is to pay rent with the least amount of suffering on my part.

tripzilch 20d ago
But we can agree that writing with such disdain about people doing literally anything else, is perhaps a bit of a bad look. Especially if it comes from Carmack, a guy who doesn't need to pay rent any more and can in fact live the rest of his life without concern for producing value, etc etc. He is currently doing exactly what he wants, just because he wants it. And that happens to be VR stuff, currently, afaik. And that's his choice. So when he speaks deeply condescending about other people doing exactly what they want ("retro computing is so delightful") it definitely comes from a different place as "hey I just want to pay my rent".

orangecat 20d ago

You're reducing programming to its utility in producing exchange value in the captitalist political economy. Well, yes? If you want to write code that isn't useful to anyone and just gives you warm fuzzies, go for it. I've done plenty of that. But it's exceptionally selfish to try to forbid technological improvements so that you can get paid to work exactly how you want to. Does cooking food serve any purpose beyond mass producing food for restaurants to sell? Should we ban industrial agriculture so that you can feel more proud of your rooftop garden?

daveguy 19d ago
Rapid, empty, and poorly integrated code that appears to work but no one bothers to understand is much less valuable than everyone seems to believe.

suriyaG 20d ago

> exchange value in the captitalist political economy. how can one exist in modern society without being an exchange value in the capitalist political economy? linux is where it is because it is able to be a critical part of said capitalist political economy. even if you want to be a FOSS contributor all your life, you need someone to figure out the "economy" part of it. food is a false equivalence in this case.