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> Ps I'm sorry if I sound harsh Actually, thanks, that did go a long way. It's not whataboutism, I'm not trying to distract from the point, I'm saying there wa

> Ps I'm sorry if I sound harsh Actually, thanks, that did go a long way. It's not whataboutism, I'm not trying to distract from the point, I'm saying there was _prior art_ in the industry where customers appeared to tolerate this. There was another PM on the team who felt the same way I did and we basically both wagged our fingers and said "you should have asked people during install", but who cares, it was too late. Zoom had, I will say, a very... Chinese culture around software security. If you're familiar, Chinese software is often much more interested in just getting the job done in a simple way, and security is... not the job? I've used a lot of Chinese software that just wants full admin everything so no one had to learn about permissions. Zoom wasn't exactly run that way, but the pool they hired from had a lot of that mentality in it. I thought Apple's tool was ridiculous though. It's like "oh, some trash blew into our yards from the neighbor's trashcan" so Apple replies "oh, don't worry, I destroyed it with my orbital ion cannon" and the tech community never stops to wonder if maybe it's a little strange that Apple has an orbital ion cannon and maybe we should ask some questions about the ion cannon.

nullpoint420 20d ago
Asked people what during install? From my perspective this should have never been designed this way. I understand if you're a PM, but those engineers should've known better, Chinese or not. As for the ion cannon (signed and notarized apps) people do talk about this and question it. Apple's infamous walled garden. Europe is trying to fix this with the Digital Markets Act (DMA) and the USA is trying to fix this with the right to repair. But you have to admit, in this instance with Zoom, it was used for a just purpose. Apple protected end-users against bad code from Zoom, which from your post, seemed complacent.
pradeeproark 20d ago
As an apple user, I am glad that Apple has an orbital ion cannon that blows up lazy and/or malicious things that could affect me.
samus 20d ago
> I thought Apple's tool was ridiculous though. It's like "oh, some trash blew into our yards from the neighbor's trashcan" so Apple replies "oh, don't worry, I destroyed it with my orbital ion cannon" and the tech community never stops to wonder if maybe it's a little strange that Apple has an orbital ion cannon and maybe we should ask some questions about the ion cannon. Nah, that's very on brand with Apple. The Apple ecosystem is well-known to be a walled garden where they rule and are very stringent about separation to the outside and being in control. People who use Apple products know what they are getting into.

nullpoint420 20d ago

Asked people what during install? From my perspective this should have never been designed this way. I understand if you're a PM, but those engineers should've known better, Chinese or not. As for the ion cannon (signed and notarized apps) people do talk about this and question it. Apple's infamous walled garden. Europe is trying to fix this with the Digital Markets Act (DMA) and the USA is trying to fix this with the right to repair. But you have to admit, in this instance with Zoom, it was used for a just purpose. Apple protected end-users against bad code from Zoom, which from your post, seemed complacent.

pradeeproark 20d ago

As an apple user, I am glad that Apple has an orbital ion cannon that blows up lazy and/or malicious things that could affect me.

samus 20d ago

> I thought Apple's tool was ridiculous though. It's like "oh, some trash blew into our yards from the neighbor's trashcan" so Apple replies "oh, don't worry, I destroyed it with my orbital ion cannon" and the tech community never stops to wonder if maybe it's a little strange that Apple has an orbital ion cannon and maybe we should ask some questions about the ion cannon. Nah, that's very on brand with Apple. The Apple ecosystem is well-known to be a walled garden where they rule and are very stringent about separation to the outside and being in control. People who use Apple products know what they are getting into.