3 ms·

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture The fear is not that they will just slow down progress for al

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture The fear is not that they will just slow down progress for all. It is that regulation will specifically burden competition. If you kill open-source training, ban Chinese models, crack down on self-hosting, grandfather OpenAI/Anthropic/Google into regulatory compliance while throwing the book at startups, etc. you wind up in the worst of all possible worlds.

metalcrow 19d ago
That's a valid concern, but some of that is outright impossible. Banning chinese models and killing open source training is not happening without massive unified international cooperation, and that sort of level of action would require the international counties decide to allow the US aligned companies to just, win. Which would be pretty against their own interests.
- Paracompact 19d ago
  It's not all-or-nothing. Banning Chinese models in the public sector and strong-arming the private sector against using them would already do great damage. Similarly, open-source training could be stymied by any of hardware embargoes, taxation, or regulation of larger players.
  - metalcrow 19d ago
    Sure, it's possible for regulations to make things worse, i will agree. But without regulations it's pretty clear things are going to end up VERY bad, and the only knob we have to make it not bad is regulations. So it's important we try something, and work towards doing a good kind of regulation, or any one of the bad futures you imagine is pretty likely to come to pass.
    - Paracompact 19d ago
      Good regulations would be very nice! Mandatory transparency into training and dataset usage would be a benefit for all, for example. Some sort of regulation or incentives against the most corrosive enshittification (AI call centers, AI therapists, undisclosed AI entertainment mills, etc.) would also be an overwhelmingly popular proposition. And enforcement of the CFAA on operators who let malicious agents loose onto the open internet, or otherwise consume too many resources or violate robots.txt, might at least help the internet stay alive a little longer.
    - iamnothere 19d ago
      It’s quite possible for imperfect regulations to make a problem worse. See, for instance, sanctions intended to weaken China that ended up creating powerful Chinese competitors and reducing Western influence in their internal markets, bringing them closer to technological autonomy. The sibling comment offers some good regulations that may actually reduce harms, but the kind of regulations offered there are not the ones that the “safety” people want, because they hurt profits.
- kalkin 19d ago
  Also, nobody ever bothers to argue why a specific proposed regulation is "regulatory capture" or would burden startups more than big companies or anything. It's just supposed to be obvious that corporations love regulation and it's bad for the public, all of post-WWII political history notwithstanding.
jsnell 19d ago
But the proposal the article is reacting to is for literally none of that! It is quite literally the opposite, with its proposed measures applying only to frontier labs rather than grandfathering them. It doesn't say anything about open source training, self-hosting, open weights, or startups. It does not suggest a ban on Chinese models (just better enforcement of chip export controls).

metalcrow 19d ago

That's a valid concern, but some of that is outright impossible. Banning chinese models and killing open source training is not happening without massive unified international cooperation, and that sort of level of action would require the international counties decide to allow the US aligned companies to just, win. Which would be pretty against their own interests.

Paracompact 19d ago
It's not all-or-nothing. Banning Chinese models in the public sector and strong-arming the private sector against using them would already do great damage. Similarly, open-source training could be stymied by any of hardware embargoes, taxation, or regulation of larger players.
- metalcrow 19d ago
  Sure, it's possible for regulations to make things worse, i will agree. But without regulations it's pretty clear things are going to end up VERY bad, and the only knob we have to make it not bad is regulations. So it's important we try something, and work towards doing a good kind of regulation, or any one of the bad futures you imagine is pretty likely to come to pass.
  - Paracompact 19d ago
    Good regulations would be very nice! Mandatory transparency into training and dataset usage would be a benefit for all, for example. Some sort of regulation or incentives against the most corrosive enshittification (AI call centers, AI therapists, undisclosed AI entertainment mills, etc.) would also be an overwhelmingly popular proposition. And enforcement of the CFAA on operators who let malicious agents loose onto the open internet, or otherwise consume too many resources or violate robots.txt, might at least help the internet stay alive a little longer.
  - iamnothere 19d ago
    It’s quite possible for imperfect regulations to make a problem worse. See, for instance, sanctions intended to weaken China that ended up creating powerful Chinese competitors and reducing Western influence in their internal markets, bringing them closer to technological autonomy. The sibling comment offers some good regulations that may actually reduce harms, but the kind of regulations offered there are not the ones that the “safety” people want, because they hurt profits.
kalkin 19d ago
Also, nobody ever bothers to argue why a specific proposed regulation is "regulatory capture" or would burden startups more than big companies or anything. It's just supposed to be obvious that corporations love regulation and it's bad for the public, all of post-WWII political history notwithstanding.

jsnell 19d ago

But the proposal the article is reacting to is for literally none of that! It is quite literally the opposite, with its proposed measures applying only to frontier labs rather than grandfathering them. It doesn't say anything about open source training, self-hosting, open weights, or startups. It does not suggest a ban on Chinese models (just better enforcement of chip export controls).