4 ms·

Yep. It's exactly the same problem using any kind of privacy encryption: If both parties don't use it, it's useless.

by uxp 14y ago

rsync 14y ago
I stand by my original assertion.
- olefoo 14y ago
  Which contributes neither enlightening discussion nor useful solutions to the discussion at hand. You have expressed your contempt for people who don't run their own mailservers; but your contempt is only an ego assertion. Your contempt, unless based on facts, and rational arguments taking into account the reality of people who have other things to do than learn whatever esoteric skills you've chosen to base your self-worth around; is of no interest to the rest of the people reading HN. I run my own mailserver; therefore you should listen to me. if the above statement seems ridiculous (which it is), it is merely the mirror of your original assertion.
  - rsync 14y ago
    Running your own mailserver is so basic of a technical skill that it is neither esoteric, nor is it something to be egotistical about. The name of the site is "hacker news" for Gods sake. Second, there's nothing I'm asking you to "listen to". My point was that a lot of the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth has no legitimacy without having taken the simplest, most elementary, first order step towards fixing this problem. Come back and complain about your bad roast after you've actually ... you know ... turned your oven on.
    - Xylakant 14y ago
      I know how to run my own mail server - I have set up a couple. L still don't because my setups tend to be inferior security and feature wise to those of people that do nothing but run mailservers every day of the week. I could argue that building mailservers is such a basic skill that everybody should be capable of doing it. Or building a house. Or growing your own food. Neither you nor I do that even though growing your own food is the simplest, most basic step to solving a ton of problems in the food industry. As I and others pointed out your most basic step does not solve the problem and you can just move to a different provider that is not subject to American laws to have the hsame effect. You're also not required to have any technical skills at all to gnash your teeth about a government that tries to expand surveillance in every possible place. For some places you might have a technical solution such as running your own mail server at home, but what are you going to do once hacking of mail servers without a warrant is permitted and common place? Counter-Hack? As hackers we try to find technical solutions to social problems, but that's not going to work out in every place.
      - rsync 14y ago
        Well, again, my point was not that you're a clown for not growing your own food, my point was that you're a clown for regularly attending (and participating in) the farmers forum, having a shed full of farming implements, etc., and then complaining about the bad cucumbers at the store. As I said, Joe 6 pack has an excuse (just like Joe Startup has an excuse not to be cultivating his own heirloom seeds). And yes, I'm aware that email as a whole is just a mess, and that running my own mail server does nothing to combat a global observer that can just intercept all traffic anyway... but the big, big win is that my entire existing email history cannot be extracted by any LEA in the country (and possibly foreign) without my even knowing about it. The local sheriff cannot subpoena my entire email history. They have to come to me. Another huge win is that you can communicate with others that share your mailserver without the email leaving the system - which thwarts even a global observer. It may interest you to know that no piece of rsync.net intra-company email has ever traversed any network.

Yep. It's exactly the same problem using any kind of privacy encryption: If both parties don't use it, it's useless.

by uxp 14y ago

Yep. It's exactly the same problem using any kind of privacy encryption: If both parties don't use it, it's useless.

rsync 14y ago

I stand by my original assertion.

olefoo 14y ago
Which contributes neither enlightening discussion nor useful solutions to the discussion at hand. You have expressed your contempt for people who don't run their own mailservers; but your contempt is only an ego assertion. Your contempt, unless based on facts, and rational arguments taking into account the reality of people who have other things to do than learn whatever esoteric skills you've chosen to base your self-worth around; is of no interest to the rest of the people reading HN. I run my own mailserver; therefore you should listen to me. if the above statement seems ridiculous (which it is), it is merely the mirror of your original assertion.
- rsync 14y ago
  Running your own mailserver is so basic of a technical skill that it is neither esoteric, nor is it something to be egotistical about. The name of the site is "hacker news" for Gods sake. Second, there's nothing I'm asking you to "listen to". My point was that a lot of the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth has no legitimacy without having taken the simplest, most elementary, first order step towards fixing this problem. Come back and complain about your bad roast after you've actually ... you know ... turned your oven on.
  - Xylakant 14y ago
    I know how to run my own mail server - I have set up a couple. L still don't because my setups tend to be inferior security and feature wise to those of people that do nothing but run mailservers every day of the week. I could argue that building mailservers is such a basic skill that everybody should be capable of doing it. Or building a house. Or growing your own food. Neither you nor I do that even though growing your own food is the simplest, most basic step to solving a ton of problems in the food industry. As I and others pointed out your most basic step does not solve the problem and you can just move to a different provider that is not subject to American laws to have the hsame effect. You're also not required to have any technical skills at all to gnash your teeth about a government that tries to expand surveillance in every possible place. For some places you might have a technical solution such as running your own mail server at home, but what are you going to do once hacking of mail servers without a warrant is permitted and common place? Counter-Hack? As hackers we try to find technical solutions to social problems, but that's not going to work out in every place.
    - rsync 14y ago
      Well, again, my point was not that you're a clown for not growing your own food, my point was that you're a clown for regularly attending (and participating in) the farmers forum, having a shed full of farming implements, etc., and then complaining about the bad cucumbers at the store. As I said, Joe 6 pack has an excuse (just like Joe Startup has an excuse not to be cultivating his own heirloom seeds). And yes, I'm aware that email as a whole is just a mess, and that running my own mail server does nothing to combat a global observer that can just intercept all traffic anyway... but the big, big win is that my entire existing email history cannot be extracted by any LEA in the country (and possibly foreign) without my even knowing about it. The local sheriff cannot subpoena my entire email history. They have to come to me. Another huge win is that you can communicate with others that share your mailserver without the email leaving the system - which thwarts even a global observer. It may interest you to know that no piece of rsync.net intra-company email has ever traversed any network.