4 ms·

Heavy regulations are the reason why we have the John Deere semi monopoly. The regulatory entry cost is in the millions for any new player to enter the market s

Heavy regulations are the reason why we have the John Deere semi monopoly. The regulatory entry cost is in the millions for any new player to enter the market so no one wants to compete and provide better service.

Eisenstein 14d ago
So are for some regulations but not others. I think that is most people's stance. It's more constructive if we talk about which specific ones.
dreamcompiler 14d ago
I call bullshit until you cite evidence. Farm equipment doesn't even need to comply with road vehicle requirements. What special regulations does a farm equipment manufacturer need to comply with that don't apply to any other industrial manufacturer?
- phyzix5761 14d ago
  $50,100 per employee in regulatory safety and compliance costs.[0] Up to $8k per engine unit produced in EPA regulatory fees.[1] Between $100k and $500k per engine model variant for EPA testing and General Compliance.[2] $100k to $200k for Transient & Steady-State Dynamometer Testing.[2] $150k per engine variant for Useful Life Deterioration Testing.[2] [0] https://www.msci.org/federal-rules-costs-small-manufacturers-about-50000-per-employee/ https://www.msci.org/federal-rules-costs-small-manufacturers... [1] https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-U/part-1039 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-U... [2] https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engines/regulations-emissions-heavy-equipment-compression https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engin...
  - laughing_man 14d ago
    That's normal stuff for anyone producing a vehicle, isn't it?
skeeter2020 14d ago
This is just not true - their machines are purposely opaque and loaded with DRM. Regulation in this area could potentially make the entire system more efficient and cheaper for everyone at the cost of JD's predatory practices. In addition to owners there are lots of independents who could work on JD equipment, but they are all literally locked out.
- deleted 14d ago
  [deleted]
- samudrijan 14d ago
  It depends on who writes the regulations. Today money writes the regs and people pay the price. Take money out of politics. But all three branches are captured. Anything that resembles returning power to the people is derided as socialism. So the result is power over the people.
pvab3 14d ago
the cost of starting a company that makes a line of tractors combines and sprayers is probably second only to an aircraft manufacturer in difficulty and complexity
- taylorfinley 14d ago
  I think China has this all sorted, we should just have a free market without tarrifs. Let the market provide us the best, un-enshittified products we can find. I am old enough to remember when that was a conservative position.
  - pocksuppet 13d ago
    The conservative position is always whatever benefits conservatives at this moment. Back when they supported a free market, a freer market benefitted them. When market regulations benefitted them, they supported a more regulated market.
    - sire-vc 13d ago
      Supporting whatever benefits you is called a 'political position', not a conservative one.
      - pocksuppet 13d ago
        It's conservatives. Leftists are often found supporting things that hurt them, and liberals usually don't support anything at all.
jawilson2 14d ago
Why isn't this an apples-oranges comparison? Good regulation: right to repair, manufacturers must supply manuals. Bad regulation: JD bribed senators to write regulations that make it insurmountably difficult for new players to enter. Calling regulation bad because corruption is baked into the US Constitution makes it really hard to get anything done.
- cucumber3732842 13d ago
  >Why isn't this an apples-oranges comparison? Every regulation looks good or at least defensible in abstract, especially when some peddler is trying to sell it and the consequences aren't obvious yet.
mindslight 14d ago
Given how each tractor manufacturer is essentially associated with its own specific country, I'd say this industry is a great example of how mature industries tend to consolidate into monopolies while getting propped up by regulatory capture greased by concerns over natural security. So while the regulatory costs you cite may indeed be onerous, simplistic calls merely for "less regulation" don't bear out.
snypher 13d ago
I can start building tractors tomorrow, what regulatory entry cost are you talking about?

Eisenstein 14d ago

So are for some regulations but not others. I think that is most people's stance. It's more constructive if we talk about which specific ones.

dreamcompiler 14d ago

I call bullshit until you cite evidence. Farm equipment doesn't even need to comply with road vehicle requirements. What special regulations does a farm equipment manufacturer need to comply with that don't apply to any other industrial manufacturer?

phyzix5761 14d ago
$50,100 per employee in regulatory safety and compliance costs.[0] Up to $8k per engine unit produced in EPA regulatory fees.[1] Between $100k and $500k per engine model variant for EPA testing and General Compliance.[2] $100k to $200k for Transient & Steady-State Dynamometer Testing.[2] $150k per engine variant for Useful Life Deterioration Testing.[2] [0] https://www.msci.org/federal-rules-costs-small-manufacturers-about-50000-per-employee/ https://www.msci.org/federal-rules-costs-small-manufacturers... [1] https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-U/part-1039 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-U... [2] https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engines/regulations-emissions-heavy-equipment-compression https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engin...
- laughing_man 14d ago
  That's normal stuff for anyone producing a vehicle, isn't it?

skeeter2020 14d ago

This is just not true - their machines are purposely opaque and loaded with DRM. Regulation in this area could potentially make the entire system more efficient and cheaper for everyone at the cost of JD's predatory practices. In addition to owners there are lots of independents who could work on JD equipment, but they are all literally locked out.

deleted 14d ago
[deleted]
samudrijan 14d ago
It depends on who writes the regulations. Today money writes the regs and people pay the price. Take money out of politics. But all three branches are captured. Anything that resembles returning power to the people is derided as socialism. So the result is power over the people.

pvab3 14d ago

the cost of starting a company that makes a line of tractors combines and sprayers is probably second only to an aircraft manufacturer in difficulty and complexity

taylorfinley 14d ago
I think China has this all sorted, we should just have a free market without tarrifs. Let the market provide us the best, un-enshittified products we can find. I am old enough to remember when that was a conservative position.
- pocksuppet 13d ago
  The conservative position is always whatever benefits conservatives at this moment. Back when they supported a free market, a freer market benefitted them. When market regulations benefitted them, they supported a more regulated market.
  - sire-vc 13d ago
    Supporting whatever benefits you is called a 'political position', not a conservative one.
    - pocksuppet 13d ago
      It's conservatives. Leftists are often found supporting things that hurt them, and liberals usually don't support anything at all.

jawilson2 14d ago

Why isn't this an apples-oranges comparison? Good regulation: right to repair, manufacturers must supply manuals. Bad regulation: JD bribed senators to write regulations that make it insurmountably difficult for new players to enter. Calling regulation bad because corruption is baked into the US Constitution makes it really hard to get anything done.

cucumber3732842 13d ago
>Why isn't this an apples-oranges comparison? Every regulation looks good or at least defensible in abstract, especially when some peddler is trying to sell it and the consequences aren't obvious yet.

mindslight 14d ago

Given how each tractor manufacturer is essentially associated with its own specific country, I'd say this industry is a great example of how mature industries tend to consolidate into monopolies while getting propped up by regulatory capture greased by concerns over natural security. So while the regulatory costs you cite may indeed be onerous, simplistic calls merely for "less regulation" don't bear out.

snypher 13d ago

I can start building tractors tomorrow, what regulatory entry cost are you talking about?