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The process you're cheering on gives more power to the powers that be who are the problem. Theyre never going to use that power to provide basic income for eve

by pydry 22d ago

The process you're cheering on gives more power to the powers that be who are the problem. Theyre never going to use that power to provide basic income for everybody. You cannot wave a wand to make them do that. Theyre going to use that power to accumulate even more resources and raw materials and impoverish/expel the "useless" labor. Realistically our leverage over the powers that be is mostly about our labor and our ability to withdraw it.

Marha01 22d ago
> The process you're cheering on gives more power to the powers that be who are the problem. That's not necessarily true. Technology gives more power to everyone. The rise of factories historically did not give more power to the powers that were at the time (the aristocracy), but instead lifted the masses from poverty (after some initial turbulent period). > Theyre never going to use that power to provide basic income for everybody. You cannot wave a wand to make them do that. Theyre going to use that power to accumulate even more resources and raw materials and impoverish/expel the "useless" labor. Contrary to leftist propaganda, the rich are not some cartoon villains and psychopaths that abuse people just for fun. The reason why the rich currently exploit the poor is because doing so provides them with significant material gains. Once they can obtain the same or even better material gains by "exploiting" robotic labor instead of human labor, the logical outcome is not further abuse and exploitation of other humans, but simply indifference. > Realistically our leverage over the powers that be is mostly about our labor and our ability to withdraw it. That is (partly) true, but only in the current economic system. Widespread human-level AI changes the equation, and not necessarily in favor of those who are currently rich. You are applying capitalist and socialist analysis to a system that transcends those terms (AI post-scarcity economy).
- qwja8176 22d ago
  Useful idiot or paid shill.
  - eru 21d ago
    If only getting a paid gig for shilling was as easy as people always assume.
- pydry 22d ago
  >That's not necessarily true. Technology gives more power to everyone. The rise of factories Did not give more power to everyone. At best you could say that it shifted power from landed gentry to industrialists. Even that switchover was less of a change than you'd think. The practical upshot of the beginning of industrialization was very negative. The enclosure movement stripped families of their land to push them to work in the factories where they would never go willingly. The famines in Ireland and Ukraine were both triggered by redirecting grain to export in order to fund domestic industrial expansion. The most brutal two wars in human history were that brutal precisely because industrialization made it possible. >instead lifted the masses from poverty (after some initial turbulent period). What lifted the masses from poverty wasnt the factories it was the labor movement which occurred in response to horrific working conditions and the reliance those factory workers had on mass labor (specifically coal mining which was incredibly labor intensive and a key economic chokepoint). The whole of that is glossed over by right wing libertarian propaganda but that last part is particularly underemphasized. >Contrary to leftist propaganda, the rich are not some cartoon villains and psychopaths Do you look at peter thiel and elon musk or the robber barons and see anything else? The few billionaires ive encountered personally were no less sociopathic but they kept it hidden better. Power corrupts. Immense wealth corrupts. That isnt a leftist thing, that's a human thing. >The reason why the rich currently exploit the poor is because doing so provides them with significant material gains. Once they can obtain the same or even better material gains by "exploiting" robotic labor instead of human labor, the logical outcome is not further abuse False. It just shifts the focus of their exploitation from human labor to natural resources. They'll fight over oil and minerals and gas and water resources and at best leave us to rot (homelessness will skyrocket) and at worst they'll find some excuse to exterminate those of us they particularly dislike (Gaza serves as a model here). The world economy's reliance on human labor has been the best inducement to peace there is. It's no coincidence that all of the countries in the world with lots of natural resources and no industry are the biggest shitholes and vice versa. >That is (partly) true, but only in the current economic system. Widespread human-level AI changes the equation, and not necessarily in favor of those who are currently rich. Human level AI (assuming it ever happens) will simply make the fight over natural resources that much more intense because labor will matter that much less. You're living at the tail end of a relatively golden period in a country where labor was the economic bottleneck and natural resources were relatively plentiful. Venezuela and Angola and Iraq are models of what happens when that equation is reversed. Nobody gives a shit about appeasing the people who live in those countries, their labor is virtually worthless. They are a model for how the rest of us will be treated in a world where human labor loses its value.

by pydry 22d ago

Marha01 22d ago

> The process you're cheering on gives more power to the powers that be who are the problem. That's not necessarily true. Technology gives more power to everyone. The rise of factories historically did not give more power to the powers that were at the time (the aristocracy), but instead lifted the masses from poverty (after some initial turbulent period). > Theyre never going to use that power to provide basic income for everybody. You cannot wave a wand to make them do that. Theyre going to use that power to accumulate even more resources and raw materials and impoverish/expel the "useless" labor. Contrary to leftist propaganda, the rich are not some cartoon villains and psychopaths that abuse people just for fun. The reason why the rich currently exploit the poor is because doing so provides them with significant material gains. Once they can obtain the same or even better material gains by "exploiting" robotic labor instead of human labor, the logical outcome is not further abuse and exploitation of other humans, but simply indifference. > Realistically our leverage over the powers that be is mostly about our labor and our ability to withdraw it. That is (partly) true, but only in the current economic system. Widespread human-level AI changes the equation, and not necessarily in favor of those who are currently rich. You are applying capitalist and socialist analysis to a system that transcends those terms (AI post-scarcity economy).

qwja8176 22d ago
Useful idiot or paid shill.
- eru 21d ago
  If only getting a paid gig for shilling was as easy as people always assume.
pydry 22d ago
>That's not necessarily true. Technology gives more power to everyone. The rise of factories Did not give more power to everyone. At best you could say that it shifted power from landed gentry to industrialists. Even that switchover was less of a change than you'd think. The practical upshot of the beginning of industrialization was very negative. The enclosure movement stripped families of their land to push them to work in the factories where they would never go willingly. The famines in Ireland and Ukraine were both triggered by redirecting grain to export in order to fund domestic industrial expansion. The most brutal two wars in human history were that brutal precisely because industrialization made it possible. >instead lifted the masses from poverty (after some initial turbulent period). What lifted the masses from poverty wasnt the factories it was the labor movement which occurred in response to horrific working conditions and the reliance those factory workers had on mass labor (specifically coal mining which was incredibly labor intensive and a key economic chokepoint). The whole of that is glossed over by right wing libertarian propaganda but that last part is particularly underemphasized. >Contrary to leftist propaganda, the rich are not some cartoon villains and psychopaths Do you look at peter thiel and elon musk or the robber barons and see anything else? The few billionaires ive encountered personally were no less sociopathic but they kept it hidden better. Power corrupts. Immense wealth corrupts. That isnt a leftist thing, that's a human thing. >The reason why the rich currently exploit the poor is because doing so provides them with significant material gains. Once they can obtain the same or even better material gains by "exploiting" robotic labor instead of human labor, the logical outcome is not further abuse False. It just shifts the focus of their exploitation from human labor to natural resources. They'll fight over oil and minerals and gas and water resources and at best leave us to rot (homelessness will skyrocket) and at worst they'll find some excuse to exterminate those of us they particularly dislike (Gaza serves as a model here). The world economy's reliance on human labor has been the best inducement to peace there is. It's no coincidence that all of the countries in the world with lots of natural resources and no industry are the biggest shitholes and vice versa. >That is (partly) true, but only in the current economic system. Widespread human-level AI changes the equation, and not necessarily in favor of those who are currently rich. Human level AI (assuming it ever happens) will simply make the fight over natural resources that much more intense because labor will matter that much less. You're living at the tail end of a relatively golden period in a country where labor was the economic bottleneck and natural resources were relatively plentiful. Venezuela and Angola and Iraq are models of what happens when that equation is reversed. Nobody gives a shit about appeasing the people who live in those countries, their labor is virtually worthless. They are a model for how the rest of us will be treated in a world where human labor loses its value.