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Cute title; I thought I was about to read a contrarian ecologist saying "a species that is so very specialized in its diet and finicky in its reproductive behav

by rmunn 16d ago

Cute title; I thought I was about to read a contrarian ecologist saying "a species that is so very specialized in its diet and finicky in its reproductive behavior doesn't deserve, evolutionarily speaking, to survive". (Seriously, it's seriously freakin' difficult to get pandas to reproduce in captivity). And while my knee-jerk reaction would be "maybe, but we should still preserve them because we can", I was prepared to see if the author had a serious argument to present. Instead it's a cute bait-and-switch title, and the article tells you upfront that it's actually about the Python `pandas` library. Which I think I've encountered maybe once in my entire career (I'm not in the data-science field), so I don't have much meaningful to say about the article itself. I just want to commend the author on fooling me with the title. This is the kind of "clickbait" I can respect and actually wish there was a little bit more of sometimes. A nice chuckle, then a real article.

MisterMunchkin 16d ago
Yeah I wanted the controversial panda article. Can someone write that instead?
__eddie__ 16d ago
Apologies for not rewarding your trust ;) Would be very interested to read an article on the literal interpretation of my title. Also just wanted to say thank you for this comment - made my day :)
otherme123 16d ago
> Seriously, it's seriously freakin' difficult to get pandas to reproduce in captivity It is impossible, and has been tried many times by many people, to reproduce Octopus vulgari in captivity. Their reproductive behaviour looks also quite weird for us (the mother always die). Yet they thrive in the wild unless over fished.
- Grimblewald 16d ago
  because breeding intelligent creatures generally requires keeping them happy. When treated like a farm aniaml, many high cognition anaimals will refuse to reproduce, just look at how bad life has become for average humans, and predictably, humans are starting to refuse to reproduce.
  - parineum 16d ago
    Birth rates fall as prosperity increases.
    - barrenko 16d ago
      Whatever this is, it's not prosperity.
      - parineum 16d ago
        What other countries have you visited?
    - mitxela 16d ago
      GDP doesn't measure prosperity.
      - avadodin 16d ago
        Prosperity doesn't measure happiness.
    - Grimblewald 15d ago
      to replacement, we're rapidly falling below. distributuon and related trends are extremely grim.
  - rmunn 16d ago
    That's more true in some locations than in others. There are places where the reported quality of life is quite a bit higher than others. I see comments like yours a lot on HN, and I'm starting to suspect that the average HN commenter is more likely to be living in some of the poorly-run big cities than in the better-run small-to-medium-sized towns. (Specifics can, and will vary. But on average I've found I'm much happier living in a medium-sized town than in a megacity, and I've also found the city governments of medium-sized towns to be more likely to be competent. Perhaps I've just been lucky in the medium towns I've lived in, though; I'd need far more data before I was certain of the thesis). Point is, if you're miserable in the place where you are, consider whether moving to a different town is feasible for you. It's not always an option for many people, for many varied reasons. But it's definitely something to consider. If it turns out you can do it, sometimes taking that risk can pay off in the long run.
grndn 16d ago
There is indeed a whole book about ecosystems and charismatic megafauna called "Do We Need Pandas?: The Uncomfortable Truth About Biodiversity"[1]. And there is debate among naturalists [2] [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9656950-do-we-need-pandas https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9656950-do-we-need-panda... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/sep/23/panda-extinction-chris-packham https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/sep/23/panda-ex...
pseudohadamard 15d ago
I was expecting a diatribe about the (UK) police: "Next week, right, I'm going to blow up a panda in Croydon".

by rmunn 16d ago

MisterMunchkin 16d ago

Yeah I wanted the controversial panda article. Can someone write that instead?

__eddie__ 16d ago

Apologies for not rewarding your trust ;) Would be very interested to read an article on the literal interpretation of my title. Also just wanted to say thank you for this comment - made my day :)

otherme123 16d ago

> Seriously, it's seriously freakin' difficult to get pandas to reproduce in captivity It is impossible, and has been tried many times by many people, to reproduce Octopus vulgari in captivity. Their reproductive behaviour looks also quite weird for us (the mother always die). Yet they thrive in the wild unless over fished.

Grimblewald 16d ago
because breeding intelligent creatures generally requires keeping them happy. When treated like a farm aniaml, many high cognition anaimals will refuse to reproduce, just look at how bad life has become for average humans, and predictably, humans are starting to refuse to reproduce.
- parineum 16d ago
  Birth rates fall as prosperity increases.
  - barrenko 16d ago
    Whatever this is, it's not prosperity.
    - parineum 16d ago
      What other countries have you visited?
  - mitxela 16d ago
    GDP doesn't measure prosperity.
    - avadodin 16d ago
      Prosperity doesn't measure happiness.
  - Grimblewald 15d ago
    to replacement, we're rapidly falling below. distributuon and related trends are extremely grim.
- rmunn 16d ago
  That's more true in some locations than in others. There are places where the reported quality of life is quite a bit higher than others. I see comments like yours a lot on HN, and I'm starting to suspect that the average HN commenter is more likely to be living in some of the poorly-run big cities than in the better-run small-to-medium-sized towns. (Specifics can, and will vary. But on average I've found I'm much happier living in a medium-sized town than in a megacity, and I've also found the city governments of medium-sized towns to be more likely to be competent. Perhaps I've just been lucky in the medium towns I've lived in, though; I'd need far more data before I was certain of the thesis). Point is, if you're miserable in the place where you are, consider whether moving to a different town is feasible for you. It's not always an option for many people, for many varied reasons. But it's definitely something to consider. If it turns out you can do it, sometimes taking that risk can pay off in the long run.

grndn 16d ago

There is indeed a whole book about ecosystems and charismatic megafauna called "Do We Need Pandas?: The Uncomfortable Truth About Biodiversity"[1]. And there is debate among naturalists [2] [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9656950-do-we-need-pandas https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9656950-do-we-need-panda... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/sep/23/panda-extinction-chris-packham https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/sep/23/panda-ex...

pseudohadamard 15d ago

I was expecting a diatribe about the (UK) police: "Next week, right, I'm going to blow up a panda in Croydon".